For those that think "more voters = better democracy"

[Ivytalk]

Like I said, completely flat from Jan 2, 2015 (17,833) to Nov 4, 2016 (17,888), then BOOM, takes right off with the news of Trump's election. Be intellectually honest, Hillary-boy. Nearly two years of stagnation, followed by a nearly 50% increase in 14 months after Trump is elected. WOW!!! Simply incredible.

Yep. Look at the slope of the graph from end of ‘14 to Election Day. Essentially flat. THEN look at the slope SINCE Election Day. VERY easy to see the distinction.

73 All-time highs in 2017 stock market
Unemployment: 6 straight months at a SEVENTEEN YEAR LOW of 4.1%
# of Employed persons: HISTORICAL ALL TIME RECORD in March
Business Confidence: Sixteen straight months in top 5% of readings over past 45 YEARS
Consumer Confidence: Two highest readings in past FOURTEEN YEARS in past 5 months
GDP expansion six straight quarters
ISIS crushed
NoKo to the negotiating table—denuking WITHOUT requirement for removal of US troops and with talk of an ACTUAL peace treaty between NoKo/SoKo/China/America
Out of stupid Paris Accord
Laid down the law to UN POS’s—UNANIMOUS rebuke of Russian security council threat!
Line in the Sand in Syria—and actually backed it up
Real Tax reform
Elimination of Obamacare mandate - further reducing tax on poor
Unwinding of onerous Dodd-Frank act
Building Wall - border crossing at all-time low; troops to the border
Building pipeline
Suing sanctuary cities

But OMG Russia! OMG those texts! OMG Mara Lago! OMG Comey!

Oh, boy, is this great!

JSO “intellectual honesty” riff is re-jected!

[Ivytalk]

And there’s Trips on the far left in the lime green cap...

I know I sound jaded, but there was a depressing transformation that happened to Boomers after 9/11. It's like their principals dissolved seemingly overnight in a flash of hatred and paranoia.

When I was in elementary school, things were different. Adults cared about the Earth and about our education. We learned about what it means to be a citizen, how a bill becomes law, that we should embrace diversity, that we should appreciate how prosperous we are, that we should aid the less fortunate.

After 9/11, most of that went away. The adults were afraid, diversity was a dirty word that might conceal terrorists, that if you didn't accept that prosperity was ours alone because we were exceptional and everyone else was backwards, then you weren't a real American, and then it finally morphed into everyone not like you is your enemy (American or otherwise).

As I reflect as an adult, the hysteria seems so clear. It's like older folks are stuck reliving the terror of 2001 and they can't snap out of it. There's so many awful issues like climate change and corruption and internet privacy that desperately need addressing, but they're still conned into electing officials that want to build borders, deport all Mexicans, grab women by the pussy, and "**** libruls" and **** "cuckservatives."

All this from a generation that told us not to believe everything you read on the internet when now (albeit anecdotally), all I see is them sharing the fakest of fake news and the fakest of fake pictures.

If 9/11 caused Boomers to go all racist and sheeit, how come they helped elect Obummer twice? That’s a lot of psychological baggage to lay on one incident.

[CAA Flagship]

JSO

[kalm]

Not really that compelling of an article. It doesn’t directly quote Obama with context and comes off more as a ‘don’t give coloreds more reason to be uppity’ piece.

I’m not a fan of BLM, Obama, or poorly trained and trigger happy cops. But I’m not gonna lay all at that much of it at the feet of the Chosen One either.

If you'd like, I could post the other 1,000 hits on Obama fanning racial flames. I only gave you the first hit.

Let's face it. Obama had a ton of promise, but was a complete failure.

Oh yes please. I want the other 1000. Not 999, but 1000. That will show me!

[∞∞∞]

Let's face it. Obama had a ton of promise, but was a complete failure.

Complete failure? No.

However, I'm disappointed in how moderate he ended up being.

[Gil Dobie]

Let's face it. Obama had a ton of promise, but was a complete failure.

Complete failure? No.

However, I'm disappointed in how moderate he ended up being.

Basically a continuation of the Bush Presidency.

[kalm]

Let's face it. Obama had a ton of promise, but was a complete failure.

Complete failure? No.

However, I'm disappointed in how moderate he ended up being.

We could have used FDR at the time but instead got Reagan....

[AZGrizFan]

Complete failure? No.

However, I'm disappointed in how moderate he ended up being.

Basically a continuation of the Bush Presidency.

Yeah, I'm just POSITIVE Obamacare would have passed had we been able to reelect Bush for a third term....
I'm positive the pipeline would have been built
I'm positive the shitty Iran nuclear deal would have been signed by Bush
I'm sure Guantanamo would have been emptied under Bush
I'm sure we'd have reopened diplomatic relations with Cuba under Bush
I'm sure we'd have entered the Paris Climate Accord under Bush
I'm sure Bush would have converted the White House to "gender neutral" bathrooms
I'm sure we'd have had race relations set back 50 years under Bush

I mean really, the list is long and illustrious of the stupid things Obama did that Bush almost certainly would NOT have.

[CAA Flagship]

Basically a continuation of the Bush Presidency.

Yeah, I'm just POSITIVE Obamacare would have passed had we been able to reelect Bush for a third term....
I'm positive the pipeline would have been built
I'm positive the shitty Iran nuclear deal would have been signed by Bush
I'm sure Guantanamo would have been emptied under Bush
I'm sure we'd have reopened diplomatic relations with Cuba under Bush
I'm sure we'd have entered the Paris Climate Accord under Bush
I'm sure Bush would have converted the White House to "gender neutral" bathrooms
I'm sure we'd have had race relations set back 50 years under Bush

I mean really, the list is long and illustrious of the stupid things Obama did that Bush almost certainly would NOT have.

"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems."
Barack Obama –attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug 11, 2009

[93henfan]

If you'd like, I could post the other 1,000 hits on Obama fanning racial flames. I only gave you the first hit.

Let's face it. Obama had a ton of promise, but was a complete failure.

Oh yes please. I want the other 1000. Not 999, but 1000. That will show me!

I'm still working on this.

[93henfan]

Yeah, I'm just POSITIVE Obamacare would have passed had we been able to reelect Bush for a third term....
I'm positive the pipeline would have been built
I'm positive the shitty Iran nuclear deal would have been signed by Bush
I'm sure Guantanamo would have been emptied under Bush
I'm sure we'd have reopened diplomatic relations with Cuba under Bush
I'm sure we'd have entered the Paris Climate Accord under Bush
I'm sure Bush would have converted the White House to "gender neutral" bathrooms
I'm sure we'd have had race relations set back 50 years under Bush

I mean really, the list is long and illustrious of the stupid things Obama did that Bush almost certainly would NOT have.

"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems."
Barack Obama –attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug 11, 2009

That quote is fucking phenomenal. That was a continuation of Dubya Bush, our most eloquent President ever.

Did Obama really say that? WTF?

[Pwns]

Oh yes please. I want the other 1000. Not 999, but 1000. That will show me!

I'm still working on this.

1. Saying that the Cambridge police "acted stupidly" with Henry Louis Gates.
2. Spending lots of money to investigate Darren Wilson because the grand jury didn't give him the outcome he wanted.
3. Praising the absurd Mizzou protests.
4. Instituting racial quotas for school suspensions that have wreaked havoc in some school districts.

[Gil Dobie]

Basically a continuation of the Bush Presidency.

Yeah, I'm just POSITIVE Obamacare would have passed had we been able to reelect Bush for a third term....
I'm positive the pipeline would have been built
I'm positive the shitty Iran nuclear deal would have been signed by Bush
I'm sure Guantanamo would have been emptied under Bush
I'm sure we'd have reopened diplomatic relations with Cuba under Bush
I'm sure we'd have entered the Paris Climate Accord under Bush
I'm sure Bush would have converted the White House to "gender neutral" bathrooms
I'm sure we'd have had race relations set back 50 years under Bush

I mean really, the list is long and illustrious of the stupid things Obama did that Bush almost certainly would NOT have.

But he continued the bailout on the domestic front. We still have home owners defaulting and bankers still getting rich.

[CID1990]

Complete failure? No.

However, I'm disappointed in how moderate he ended up being.

We could have used FDR at the time but instead got Reagan....

HAH HAH

We get the kid on one hand taking a poke at someone for being too moderate and klam trotting out his Reagan bugaboo all in the space of two posts

its a doofus twofer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UNI88]

Complete failure? No.

However, I'm disappointed in how moderate he ended up being.

We could have used Reagan at the time but instead got an LBJ wannabe ....

FYP

[JohnStOnge]

Yep. Look at the slope of the graph from end of ‘14 to Election Day. Essentially flat. THEN look at the slope SINCE Election Day. VERY easy to see the distinction.!

Except that's just not true. The value was flat for much of 2015 before kind of jumping down then up a little then down again to close out the year. So 2015 ended and 2016 started a little down.

But from early 2016 the trend was basically up. And that continued through early 2018 when we entered the circumstance we're in now.

The assertion that it was "Essentially flat" from the end to 2014 through Election day is just false. And it's pretty obviously false. I don't know why you'd even do that.

Look at the graph. Focus on the line that marks the beginning of 2016. The trend is generally up from there.

I'll go ahead and post a graphic starting at the beginning of 2016. You can see a down slope right at the beginning but you can also see that an upward trend started very early in 2016:



It was not a "flat until election day" situation.

[93henfan]

Jan 2, 2015 - 17,833
Nov 4, 2016 - 17,888 (Trump election week)
Jan 26, 2018 - 26,616

Yep.

[JohnStOnge]

[
JSO “intellectual honesty” riff is re-jected!

It's not an and you're smart enough to know it. Like the unemployment thing. Take a look at the unemployment trend over the past 10 years. I've posted it before but I guess I'll do it again:



The idea that we should attribute having a low unemployment rate right now to Trump is ridiculous. And you know it.

[AZGrizFan]

Yep. Look at the slope of the graph from end of ‘14 to Election Day. Essentially flat. THEN look at the slope SINCE Election Day. VERY easy to see the distinction.!

Except that's just not true. The value was flat for much of 2015 before kind of jumping down then up a little then down again to close out the year. So 2015 ended and 2016 started a little down.

But from early 2016 the trend was basically up. And that continued through early 2018 when we entered the circumstance we're in now.

The assertion that it was "Essentially flat" from the end to 2014 through Election day is just false. And it's pretty obviously false. I don't know why you'd even do that.

Look at the graph. Focus on the line that marks the beginning of 2016. The trend is generally up from there.

I'll go ahead and post a graphic starting at the beginning of 2016. You can see a down slope right at the beginning but you can also see that an upward trend started very early in 2016:



It was not a "flat until election day" situation.

No, Jon it’s NOT false. You picked a convenient point where all the market did was gain BACK what it had lost in the previous 3-4 months. The market WAS flat from end of 14 to Election Day. You can NOT dispute that.

Well, maybe YOU can...

One could ALSO argue that as the election of Trump became more and more of a possibility, the market responded accordingly. Upward.

[JohnStOnge]

Jan 2, 2015 - 17,833
Nov 4, 2016 - 17,888 (Trump election week)
Jan 26, 2018 - 26,616

Yep.

Again, you need to look at the graph and note where the value bottomed out early in 2016 then started to rise. On January 29, 2016 (which is what I think is the low point or at least close to it early in 2016) it was 16466. On election day it closed at 18,332.

It is very clear that the market rose from the low point early in 2016 through election day. Yes, there were some ups and downs including a down period leading up to election day. But it generally rose.

You are cherry picking. Look at the entire graph.

[JohnStOnge]

Here's an interesting report on the stock market from 2016 election day:

http://www.businessinsider.com/closing- ... 16-2016-11

Stocks headed higher for the day as Americans took to the polls, marking the end of the US presidential campaign.

Based on most proxies, it appears the market is pricing in a victory by Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

[kalm]

We could have used Reagan at the time but instead got an LBJ wannabe ....

FYP

LBJ isn’t a bad comeback.

But if only we’d had Reagan. Why he would have helped with the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia to fund the Syrian Rebel freedom fighters. And then cut taxes on the rich and raised them on the middle class 11 times to pay for the tax cuts on the rich. While providing amnesty to 11 million dreamers....making, as Judah Friedlander describes, America ...the greatest country in the United States!

[kalm]

We could have used FDR at the time but instead got Reagan....

HAH HAH

We get the kid on one hand taking a poke at someone for being too moderate and klam trotting out his Reagan bugaboo all in the space of two posts

its a doofus twofer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reagan...the 3rd rail of conk political discussions....

[UNI88]

HAH HAH

We get the kid on one hand taking a poke at someone for being too moderate and klam trotting out his Reagan bugaboo all in the space of two posts

its a doofus twofer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reagan...the 3rd rail of conk political discussions....

I grew up in Iowa in the 70s & 80s. I didn't like Reagan in my youth (his policies hurt farmers and he had a nice little spat with Chuck Grassley) but I've grown to respect his contributions to this country with age and wisdom.

[kalm]

Reagan...the 3rd rail of conk political discussions....

I grew up in Iowa in the 70s & 80s. I didn't like Reagan in my youth (his policies hurt farmers and he had a nice little spat with Chuck Grassley) but I've grown to respect his contributions to this country with age and wisdom.

I totally respect your thoughts on all things political except on this topic. Reagan was so great Grover Norquist had to go out and raise millions to convince, revise history, and name things in Reagan’s honor. Subsequently reality was suspended by many otherwise smart folks and the absurdity of thoughtless de-regulation, trickle down economics, and faux patriotism have been embraced by the establishment of both sides for 3 decades.