Migrant Caravan

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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by ∞∞∞ »

andy7171 wrote:Where'd trip go?
Am I needed?
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by CAA Flagship »

kalm wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: Yes. And alcohol impairment depends on how much alcohol one would consume. And some people can be less, or more, impaired by the same amount of alcohol as the person next to them.
Impairment is impairment. But, for companies, alcohol impairment is easier to measure than weed impairment. That's all I'm saying here.
Whatever................,

Man.
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Worn out?
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Migrant Caravan

Post by css75 »

Ibanez wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: Image
Worked 13 years in the Environmental & SAFETY field (also, wife). I know the burden on a company when workplace injuries occur.

It's easier to determine BAC in people. Harder to determine how "high" someone is. Also, a person can get "high" quicker than they can get drunk. Point is, the legalization of recreational weed is a problem for companies.
There is a shocking number people that smoke a joint before going to work and it in no way affects them. We shouldn't equate recreational use and addiction.

Why? Seems like one and the same. If Officer O’Malley pulls you over for DUI he doesn’t care if you are addicted or out for recreation.

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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote:
I'm not advocating for forklift drivers to get high on duty, but perhaps weed isn't quite the same as alcohol when it comes to safety/impairment.

Slowest forklift driver.........EVER!

:mrgreen:
Still, plenty of danger and damage you can do with a slow forklift. Driving off a warehouse dock or knocking over racking doesn't really matter how fast you're going, those forklifts tend to have a considerable amount of mass.
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
I'm not advocating for forklift drivers to get high on duty, but perhaps weed isn't quite the same as alcohol when it comes to safety/impairment.

Slowest forklift driver.........EVER!

:mrgreen:
Still, plenty of danger and damage you can do with a slow forklift. Driving off a warehouse dock or knocking over racking doesn't really matter how fast you're going, those forklifts tend to have a considerable amount of mass.
Oh...I never looked at it that way. Thanks, BDK!
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by CID1990 »

UNI88 wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
what

That seems to be a very libertarian viewpoint to me


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A company can and should require that you show up ready (not impaired) for work but they shouldn't be able to tell you what you can and can't do in your free time if it doesn't impact your performance on the job. If it does you have an intrusive employer instead of (or in addition to) an intrusive government.
An employer should be able to require that their forklift and airplane drivers don't have intoxicants in their systems. Granted, drug testing won't tell you if someone is currently impaired, so random testing isn't necessarily the full monty of libertarianism, but I think the real libertarian view here is

"If you don't like it, work somewhere else"


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Re: Megrant Caravan

Post by houndawg »

dbackjon wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
Let's think about it. Take race out of it for a second and look at the immigration waves in their rightful context. You can't compare them. Take a look at assimilation. It isn't purely the skin color that led 18th/19th Century immigrants to better assimilate. Assimilation doesn't mean you abandon your heritage. But it does mean that you learn the language of your adopted country, understand and respect it's culture, customs and laws. Join in on the activities. But don't forget where you came from. The Irish, Italians and Germans (to name a few) figured it out. :twocents:

I've been accused of being to simplistic in historical analysis. I guess I should post long diatribes like JSO.

Yes, Hispanic immigrants assimilate faster now than any group in the history of the country!
Well they should, about a third of the country started out as Mexico... :mrgreen:
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Re: RE: Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by UNI88 »

CID1990 wrote:
UNI88 wrote:A company can and should require that you show up ready (not impaired) for work but they shouldn't be able to tell you what you can and can't do in your free time if it doesn't impact your performance on the job. If it does you have an intrusive employer instead of (or in addition to) an intrusive government.
An employer should be able to require that their forklift and airplane drivers don't have intoxicants in their systems. Granted, drug testing won't tell you if someone is currently impaired, so random testing isn't necessarily the full monty of libertarianism, but I think the real libertarian view here is

"If you don't like it, work somewhere else"


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I agree that employers should be able to require that employees don't have intoxicants in their systems when working. I don't think they should be able to prohibit them from partaking in a legal substance when they are off the clock as long as that substance is no longer an impairment when they are on the clock. I am opposed to big brother as a government and employer. It's easier to change employers than country/state but the principles are similar.
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by houndawg »

CID1990 wrote:
UNI88 wrote:A company can and should require that you show up ready (not impaired) for work but they shouldn't be able to tell you what you can and can't do in your free time if it doesn't impact your performance on the job. If it does you have an intrusive employer instead of (or in addition to) an intrusive government.
An employer should be able to require that their forklift and airplane drivers don't have intoxicants in their systems. Granted, drug testing won't tell you if someone is currently impaired, so random testing isn't necessarily the full monty of libertarianism, but I think the real libertarian view here is

"If you don't like it, work somewhere else"


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:ohno:

They should be able to require that they aren't intoxicated on company time.
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by houndawg »

89Hen wrote:
Ibanez wrote: Anecdotal take is rough. My MIL is 1st generation American and they were forced to speak only English in the house. She learned German in high school and college. Speaking German was verboten.


If you read the articles (and I read a few earlier) 2nd Generation tend to be more bi-lingual. It's 3rd Generation and on that become more monolingual.
I only got as far as the notion that grandparents and grandkids wouldn't be able to speak to each other. I couldn't in the 70's but all my kids friends who have Hispanic grandparents ALL speak Spanish to each other. :nod:
My daughter teaches ESL in NC, she says that if she didn't speak Spanish she'd have difficulty talking to the parents but that the parents are very much on the children to learn English. Also says the kids are scared shitless if she mentions calling the parents about behavior issues and immediately snap to.
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by Chizzang »

CAA Flagship wrote:
kalm wrote:
Weed is tricky because it can stay in your system long after the effects are gone. But unlike alcohol you can't judge impairment through a field sobriety test to determine whether the person is high now or was high weeks ago?

I'm not advocating for forklift drivers to get high on duty, but perhaps weed isn't quite the same as alcohol when it comes to safety/impairment.

Slowest forklift driver.........EVER!

:mrgreen:
Pretty sure I already stated/agreed that weed stays in your system. That is why some companies have a "no weed" policy in a legalized state. It's just too difficult to determine the current impairment. This is bad for the responsible recreational user that wants to do it on their own time.

So what percent of impairment is weed vs. alcohol? 75%? 50%? 25%?
Just fire them... it's a right to work state
and fork truck drivers are a like guitarists, they're a dime a dozen

I don't get the big production you're making
Companies are allowed to have drug policies and allowed to enforce them

Here's our drug policy - zero tolerance
Don't like it - don't work here
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by houndawg »

css75 wrote:Do not let them cross, Mexico is helping them get here, they should be responsible.


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Isn't making them pay for the wall holding them responsible? :?
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by houndawg »

kalm wrote:
BDKJMU wrote: No you are replying to the people in this thread who want to turn bogus asylum-seekers away at the border simply because they don't like ILLEGAL immigrants and those who would like to exploit loopholes to gain easy, permanent entry into the country.
Yeah but nary a peep from you folks regarding those who employ them.

I don’t want illegals either and I’m not even opposed to building that stupid wall...whatever. But until the right also acknowledges illegal employers they are 100% full of **** on the issue.

Exactly. This problem could be solved overnight if the same people demonizing immigrants didn't need them to keep wages down.
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by houndawg »

CID1990 wrote:
kalm wrote:
So shooting them on site would be harsh?
*sight


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Maybe he meant "where" instead of "when"?
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by houndawg »

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:Montana's faggot deomocrat governor says he won't send NG troops.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... ploy-nati/

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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by houndawg »

BDKJMU wrote:In somewhat related news:

"ICE raids meatpacking plant in Tennessee; 97 immigrants arrested

Federal officials arrested 97 immigrants at a meat-processing plant in rural Tennessee on Thursday in what civil rights organizations said was the largest single workplace raid in a decade and a sign that the Trump administration is carrying out its plan to aggressively ramp up enforcement this year.

Ten people were arrested on federal immigration charges, one person was arrested on state charges and 86 immigrants were detained for being in the country illegally, Tammy Spicer, a spokeswoman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said in a statement Friday. All of those arrested are suspected of being in the country illegally, she said. Immigration advocates said most were from Mexico.

The raid on Southeastern Provision in Bean Station, Tennessee, follows arrests at 7-Eleven stores and other workplaces nationwide. Last year, the nation's top immigration official said he had ordered agents to increase the number of work-site inspections and operations by "four or five times" this year, to turn off the job "magnets" that attract immigrants who are in the country illegally and punish employers who hire them....

.....The immigration arrests came as authorities executed a federal criminal search warrant at the cattle-slaughter facility, outside Knoxville in northeast Tennessee. ICE said it was a joint operation involving its Homeland Security Investigations arm, the Internal Revenue Service and the Tennessee Highway Patrol.

In a federal affidavit, IRS Special Agent Nicholas Worsham said the family-run plant is under criminal investigation for allegedly evading taxes, filing false tax returns and hiring immigrants in the country illegally.

He alleged the facility failed to report $8.4 million in wages and to pay at least $2.5 million in payroll taxes for dozens of undocumented workers.

Federal agents began investigating the company months ago after Citizens Bank employees noticed that Southeastern Provision was withdrawing large sums of cash every week - more than $25 million since 2008. Worsham said the plant hired undocumented workers who were paid in cash and subject to harsh conditions, including long hours without overtime and exposure to bleach and other chemicals without protective eyewear......"
https://www.lmtonline.com/news/article/ ... 812525.php
The way its written makes it sound like none of the employers were arrested. Surely that can't be right.?
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by houndawg »

css75 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
No amount of "enforcement" will work as long as businesses keep providing jobs for illegals

:dunce:

We've got the cure...
But instead we treat the symptoms

Concur, Chizzang, but need border enforcement for the massive amount of narcotics coming in.


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Another easily solved problem.
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by houndawg »

JohnStOnge wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: :lol:
Worked 13 years in the Environmental & SAFETY field (also, wife). I know the burden on a company when workplace injuries occur.

It's easier to determine BAC in people. Harder to determine how "high" someone is. Also, a person can get "high" quicker than they can get drunk. Point is, the legalization of recreational weed is a problem for companies.
I think that if a private company wants to say "If you want to work for me you can't do weed" it should have a right to. That's different than government saying that doing weed is a criminal offense.

Some companies might find it advantageous to prohibit using weed. Others might not. That is fine.

Sounds good on paper, but why not save real money and say: "if you want to work here you can't drink"?
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by houndawg »

Chizzang wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: I don't disagree. I'm just saying that legalization makes it difficult on companies where safety is a big issue. Employees tend to think it is OK if they live in a state with legalization. And if companies say that it's OK on your own time, but not at work, it is more challenging for companies to enforce.

Another thing that is happening is that health insurance, in some cases, for all employees are getting affected in these states. In most cases, it is just the employee that uses that gets hit with higher premiums, like smokers. But healthcare companies are using it as an excuse to bump everyone in some cases. I have heard (not sure if true though) that the same thing happens in states where tobacco is cheaper, such as the tobacco growing states.

Okay Chicken Little...
I thought Jeff Sessions was a Marijuana Drama Queen
You're laying it on pretty thick there Sparky

Note:
Companies can spot drug test you know
and the sh!t stays in your system forever

:lol:

Around these parts a group of people smoking weed is now known as a "Jeff" session. "Waddup"? "We be Jeffin'". Give it a couple of years and Websters will put it in the book.
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by houndawg »

kalm wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: Pretty sure I already stated/agreed that weed stays in your system. That is why some companies have a "no weed" policy in a legalized state. It's just too difficult to determine the current impairment. This is bad for the responsible recreational user that wants to do it on their own time.

So what percent of impairment is weed vs. alcohol? 75%? 50%? 25%?
Apples to oranges and depends on the type of weed, how it's ingested, the person, etc. EG: edibles have a much stronger effect as they are processed through the liver rather than the lungs and produce a different compound of THC than if it's smoked. :ugeek:

That can change, too - edibles have very minimal effect on me anymore while smoking is the same as it ever was effect-wise. When I was younger I avoided edibles because their effects lasted so long, like 6-8 hours; nowadays brownies that drop the hammer on seasoned old stoners might give me the giggles a little bit. :(
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by css75 »

Sign: Frequent drug and alcohol tests done randomly ar any time. Those found with either in their system unless Medically prescribed by an MD, will be terminated.



Phony marijuana prescribers not considered MD.


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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by houndawg »

css75 wrote:Sign: Frequent drug and alcohol tests done randomly ar any time. Those found with either in their system unless Medically prescribed by an MD, will be terminated.



Phony marijuana prescribers not considered MD.


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Migrant Caravan

Post by css75 »

houndawg wrote:
css75 wrote:Sign: Frequent drug and alcohol tests done randomly ar any time. Those found with either in their system unless Medically prescribed by an MD, will be terminated.



Phony marijuana prescribers not considered MD.


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Pay better wages and you'll attract better workers

I know several well paid people who had drug and alcohol issues. But there is some merit to your statement, but it is not an absolute.


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Re: RE: Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by CID1990 »

UNI88 wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
An employer should be able to require that their forklift and airplane drivers don't have intoxicants in their systems. Granted, drug testing won't tell you if someone is currently impaired, so random testing isn't necessarily the full monty of libertarianism, but I think the real libertarian view here is

"If you don't like it, work somewhere else"


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I agree that employers should be able to require that employees don't have intoxicants in their systems when working. I don't think they should be able to prohibit them from partaking in a legal substance when they are off the clock as long as that substance is no longer an impairment when they are on the clock. I am opposed to big brother as a government and employer. It's easier to change employers than country/state but the principles are similar.
Well the devil is in the details, isn't it?

How do employers determine they have employees that are functional addicts or alcoholics before an accident happens? I tend to agree with you on what you are saying, but there is no good or easy way to make sure you don't have dangerous employees without random testing.
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Re: Migrant Caravan

Post by Ibanez »

css75 wrote:
Ibanez wrote:
There is a shocking number people that smoke a joint before going to work and it in no way affects them. We shouldn't equate recreational use and addiction.

Why? Seems like one and the same. If Officer O’Malley pulls you over for DUI he doesn’t care if you are addicted or out for recreation.

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That isn't the point that CAA and I are talking about. I know a lot of people that smoke a joint before going to work and they excel at their jobs. They are experts in their fields. Not everyone that smokes a daily joint or has a beer at lunch is causing problems.
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