Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by ∞∞∞ »

It never amazes me the nonsensical predictions and fears of other cultures people have.

Also I'm laughing my butt off about line #3. Tell that to my family in the Middle East.
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by Ivytalk »

CID1990 wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:
I did know this and I'm probably part of the American majority - I don't care. You're talking to a generation, including myself, that literally lives in a connected world that shares everything.

I'm not paranoid about Chinese military or technological superiority. In fact, I think this is how humanity should work - sharing ideas and working off each other in order to raise all nations.

We're also at a point where a war between major powers is going nuclear anyways, so why should I care if China can make a better airplane or ship or tank? Or have a better military in general? Let's share the next century or two together as superpowers...there's really no reason for animosity. Otherwise we just become another Russia trolling the world to stroke egos.

So yeah, I'm ok with not being #1.
It isn’t about being number one. That’s where you and the rest are naive as hell. It is about being sovereign. In the next generation, China’s foreign policy is going to be dictatorial ... much in the same way ours is

Except that China demands access to markets and political favor in return for infrastructure handouts, with no behavioral strings attached.

We demand the same things, in exchange for respect for human rights, and good governance

Your grandchildren are going to have a very different view of China, if they are actually allowed to express it
Surely you don’t think that all the technology transfers are “legal,” do you? China leads the world in IP piracy. Every sentient IP attorney and International manufacturing exec knows that. I have read that some 80% of the US-targeted trade secret theft is committed by the Red Chinese. And NPR says that good ol’ Xi promises to crack down on that practice. Yeah, right.
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by CID1990 »

∞∞∞ wrote:It never amazes me the nonsensical predictions and fears of other cultures people have.

Also I'm laughing my butt off about line #3. Tell that to my family in the Middle East.
You are Exhibit A of why the game is already over

And stop conflating strategic politics with culture - it is juvenile and makes you sound dumb

Are you saying that we dont browbeat every single country where we have an embassy with TIPS reports, demands for improvements in human rights and governance in exchange for foreign aid? And that we dont go into overdrive on it especially when Democrats are in charge? Because we do, and I see and live it every single day. 75% of a political section's time is spent preparing this or that report, which is then publicized to great fanfare, and then used by Congress or the Exec to deny or grant goodies

I'm simply stating facts here- China plays sphere of influence politics.. they invest huge amounts of aid in the developing world ... their railroad projects in Africa alone are staggering. And all they ask in return is favored access

We have a mutual defense treaty with Thailand. We are celebrating 200 years of diplomatic relations with them.. the longest of any country in Asia. We criticized them over the latest military coup, refused some photo ops, and because of that public loss of face, they have turned to China - for all kinds of favored partner deals. That may not be a big deal to you and the rest of the global scolds, but the day is coming when our economic and strategic decisions are going to be made for us, and it will be because we alienated all of our allies with silly, useless pabulum and called it diplomacy - and China will control who will trade with us and who will not.

The cliffs notes of all of this is that China acts in their own interests, and we frequently do not



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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by CID1990 »

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
It isn’t about being number one. That’s where you and the rest are naive as hell. It is about being sovereign. In the next generation, China’s foreign policy is going to be dictatorial ... much in the same way ours is

Except that China demands access to markets and political favor in return for infrastructure handouts, with no behavioral strings attached.

We demand the same things, in exchange for respect for human rights, and good governance

Your grandchildren are going to have a very different view of China, if they are actually allowed to express it
Surely you don’t think that all the technology transfers are “legal,” do you? China leads the world in IP piracy. Every sentient IP attorney and International manufacturing exec knows that. I have read that some 80% of the US-targeted trade secret theft is committed by the Red Chinese. And NPR says that good ol’ Xi promises to crack down on that practice. Yeah, right.
Of course they aren't legal - China's below board activities are well known. I'm just focusing here on the things we actually allow them to demand in exchange for access to their endless supply of cheap labor and products


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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by Ivytalk »

CID1990 wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: Surely you don’t think that all the technology transfers are “legal,” do you? China leads the world in IP piracy. Every sentient IP attorney and International manufacturing exec knows that. I have read that some 80% of the US-targeted trade secret theft is committed by the Red Chinese. And NPR says that good ol’ Xi promises to crack down on that practice. Yeah, right.
Of course they aren't legal - China's below board activities are well known. I'm just focusing here on the things we actually allow them to demand in exchange for access to their endless supply of cheap labor and products


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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by ∞∞∞ »

CID1990 wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:It never amazes me the nonsensical predictions and fears of other cultures people have.

Also I'm laughing my butt off about line #3. Tell that to my family in the Middle East.
You are Exhibit A of why the game is already over

And stop conflating strategic politics with culture - it is juvenile and makes you sound dumb

Are you saying that we dont browbeat every single country where we have an embassy with TIPS reports, demands for improvements in human rights and governance in exchange for foreign aid? And that we dont go into overdrive on it especially when Democrats are in charge? Because we do, and I see and live it every single day. 75% of a political section's time is spent preparing this or that report, which is then publicized to great fanfare, and then used by Congress or the Exec to deny or grant goodies

I'm simply stating facts here- China plays sphere of influence politics.. they invest huge amounts of aid in the developing world ... their railroad projects in Africa alone are staggering. And all they ask in return is favored access

We have a mutual defense treaty with Thailand. We are celebrating 200 years of diplomatic relations with them.. the longest of any country in Asia. We criticized them over the latest military coup, refused some photo ops, and because of that public loss of face, they have turned to China - for all kinds of favored partner deals. That may not be a big deal to you and the rest of the global scolds, but the day is coming when our economic and strategic decisions are going to be made for us, and it will be because we alienated all of our allies with silly, useless pabulum and called it diplomacy - and China will control who will trade with us and who will not.

The cliffs notes of all of this is that China acts in their own interests, and we frequently do not.
Good for China; that's how you should build nations while simultaneously investing into the long-term growth of your own economy. And it's something many of us (including myself) have called for. But Americans bitch and moan about how we're investing into other nations instead of putting the money at home.

However, we're ok to go in guns a blazing, destroying countries, and then building 'em back up. Or we're good with forcing a nation to follow our values instead of simply letting them do their own thing and working economically off each other.

This is why it's hard for me, as a citizen observer of the machine, to take you seriously. I come from a generation that's literally only known war and super shitty foreign policy. Like it or not, of everything you've posted, you've been part of that shitty foreign affairs machine for decades. It's a failed system, but you want to perpetuate it (like doubling down on our military industrial complex). And if I'm wrong, which you think I am, please understand your generation has done a TERRIBLE job selling your policies. We're literally about to start sending troops into wars that were started BEFORE those troops were born...insanity.

So again, good for China; we should learn from them - there's no shame in copying something that works. But I'm not going to sit here and continually listen to those preaching they know best when for my entire lifetime, the opposite has been the case.
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by Ivytalk »

∞∞∞ wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
You are Exhibit A of why the game is already over

And stop conflating strategic politics with culture - it is juvenile and makes you sound dumb

Are you saying that we dont browbeat every single country where we have an embassy with TIPS reports, demands for improvements in human rights and governance in exchange for foreign aid? And that we dont go into overdrive on it especially when Democrats are in charge? Because we do, and I see and live it every single day. 75% of a political section's time is spent preparing this or that report, which is then publicized to great fanfare, and then used by Congress or the Exec to deny or grant goodies

I'm simply stating facts here- China plays sphere of influence politics.. they invest huge amounts of aid in the developing world ... their railroad projects in Africa alone are staggering. And all they ask in return is favored access

We have a mutual defense treaty with Thailand. We are celebrating 200 years of diplomatic relations with them.. the longest of any country in Asia. We criticized them over the latest military coup, refused some photo ops, and because of that public loss of face, they have turned to China - for all kinds of favored partner deals. That may not be a big deal to you and the rest of the global scolds, but the day is coming when our economic and strategic decisions are going to be made for us, and it will be because we alienated all of our allies with silly, useless pabulum and called it diplomacy - and China will control who will trade with us and who will not.

The cliffs notes of all of this is that China acts in their own interests, and we frequently do not.
Good for China; that's how you should build nations while simultaneously investing into the long-term growth of your own economy. And it's something many of us (including myself) have called for. But Americans bitch and moan about how we're investing into other nations instead of putting the money at home.

However, we're ok to go in guns a blazing, destroying countries, and then building 'em back up. Or we're good with forcing a nation to follow our values instead of simply letting them do their own thing and working economically off each other.

This is why it's hard for me, as a citizen observer of the machine, to take you seriously. I come from a generation that's literally only known war and super shitty foreign policy. Like it or not, of everything you've posted, you've been part of that shitty foreign affairs machine for decades. It's a failed system, but you want to perpetuate it (like doubling down on our military industrial complex). And if I'm wrong, which you think I am, please understand your generation has done a TERRIBLE job selling your policies. We're literally about to start sending troops into wars that were started BEFORE those troops were born...insanity.

So again, good for China; we should learn from them - there's no shame in copying something that works. But I'm not going to sit here and continually listen to those preaching they know best when for my entire lifetime, the opposite has been the case.
So leave. :coffee:
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Ivytalk wrote:So leave. :coffee:
Hell no. I want to leave a better US for the next generation so they can write their own stories.
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by Winterborn »

∞∞∞ wrote:
So again, good for China; we should learn from them - there's no shame in copying something that works. But I'm not going to sit here and continually listen to those preaching they know best when for my entire lifetime, the opposite has been the case.
So you are not a fan of intellectual property rights?
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Winterborn wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:
So again, good for China; we should learn from them - there's no shame in copying something that works. But I'm not going to sit here and continually listen to those preaching they know best when for my entire lifetime, the opposite has been the case.
So you are not a fan of intellectual property rights?
I'm talking about how China is reaching out and investing into foreign nations with the mindset that it's a long-term investment. America used to do that, but within its own ethical values:
John Quincy Adams wrote:[America] goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will recommend the general cause, by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example
Unless there's a grave situation that genuinely needs American intervention, the diplomatic way to spread our values is to be a beacon other people reach for. That's what China is doing, but they're spreading their own ethical and political values the way we used to do with ours.

Anyways, I gotta work.
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by CID1990 »

∞∞∞ wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
You are Exhibit A of why the game is already over

And stop conflating strategic politics with culture - it is juvenile and makes you sound dumb

Are you saying that we dont browbeat every single country where we have an embassy with TIPS reports, demands for improvements in human rights and governance in exchange for foreign aid? And that we dont go into overdrive on it especially when Democrats are in charge? Because we do, and I see and live it every single day. 75% of a political section's time is spent preparing this or that report, which is then publicized to great fanfare, and then used by Congress or the Exec to deny or grant goodies

I'm simply stating facts here- China plays sphere of influence politics.. they invest huge amounts of aid in the developing world ... their railroad projects in Africa alone are staggering. And all they ask in return is favored access

We have a mutual defense treaty with Thailand. We are celebrating 200 years of diplomatic relations with them.. the longest of any country in Asia. We criticized them over the latest military coup, refused some photo ops, and because of that public loss of face, they have turned to China - for all kinds of favored partner deals. That may not be a big deal to you and the rest of the global scolds, but the day is coming when our economic and strategic decisions are going to be made for us, and it will be because we alienated all of our allies with silly, useless pabulum and called it diplomacy - and China will control who will trade with us and who will not.

The cliffs notes of all of this is that China acts in their own interests, and we frequently do not.
Good for China; that's how you should build nations while simultaneously investing into the long-term growth of your own economy. And it's something many of us (including myself) have called for. But Americans bitch and moan about how we're investing into other nations instead of putting the money at home.

However, we're ok to go in guns a blazing, destroying countries, and then building 'em back up. Or we're good with forcing a nation to follow our values instead of simply letting them do their own thing and working economically off each other.

This is why it's hard for me, as a citizen observer of the machine, to take you seriously. I come from a generation that's literally only known war and super shitty foreign policy. Like it or not, of everything you've posted, you've been part of that shitty foreign affairs machine for decades. It's a failed system, but you want to perpetuate it (like doubling down on our military industrial complex). And if I'm wrong, which you think I am, please understand your generation has done a TERRIBLE job selling your policies. We're literally about to start sending troops into wars that were started BEFORE those troops were born...insanity.

So again, good for China; we should learn from them - there's no shame in copying something that works. But I'm not going to sit here and continually listen to those preaching they know best when for my entire lifetime, the opposite has been the case.
I'm done debating with you. At least JSO actually reads what people write and (mostly) understands it.

I'll just say that I don't have a clue where you get that I am somehow a hawk or a military industrialist.

The people who make silly demands of other countries? The way I've illustrated? They're your fellow travelers, dude. Barack Obama's admin was chock full of them - demanding feel good concessions from developing countries for handouts, and getting played by China and Russia.

Your defense of the Chinese is about the most know-nothing, vapid load of crap I've read on this board, and that's saying something


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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by Ivytalk »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:So leave. :coffee:
Hell no. I want to leave a better US for the next generation so they can write their own stories.
OK, Pollyanna. Keep those idealistic, naive cliches coming! :thumb:
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by CAA Flagship »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:So leave. :coffee:
Hell no. I want to leave a better US for the next generation so they can write their own stories.
I'm not sure how you propose to do that, but it begs the question:
Has America already peaked at some point in it's history? If so, when was it? Or is the best yet to come? What would take place to make it better?
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by Ibanez »

SDHornet wrote:
CID1990 wrote:Looks like Xi gave us a half blink

Theyre open to reducing their restrictions on US autos

Which really isnt a concession now, since their own cars are getting close to being competitive

When they get rid of the tech transfer riders in their business licensing contracts then we'll know the tariff may have worked... but I still doubt it




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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by Ibanez »

Ivytalk wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Of course they aren't legal - China's below board activities are well known. I'm just focusing here on the things we actually allow them to demand in exchange for access to their endless supply of cheap labor and products


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As a lawyer, representing the Chinese is an exercise in frustration. First, you always have to deal with a middleman, who relays all communications to and from the top dog. Second, communications are slow as stink, even in urgent situations. Third, they always stiff you on your bills. Fourth, they are habitual liars. Fifth, after they stiff you on your bills, the middleman conveniently disappears. Sixth, good luck enforcing a judgment against them. :ohno:
Sounds like when I used to work with the French. The Frogs never wanted to pay for an appraisal.

The Germans, always payed on time.
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by Ibanez »

∞∞∞ wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
You are Exhibit A of why the game is already over

And stop conflating strategic politics with culture - it is juvenile and makes you sound dumb

Are you saying that we dont browbeat every single country where we have an embassy with TIPS reports, demands for improvements in human rights and governance in exchange for foreign aid? And that we dont go into overdrive on it especially when Democrats are in charge? Because we do, and I see and live it every single day. 75% of a political section's time is spent preparing this or that report, which is then publicized to great fanfare, and then used by Congress or the Exec to deny or grant goodies

I'm simply stating facts here- China plays sphere of influence politics.. they invest huge amounts of aid in the developing world ... their railroad projects in Africa alone are staggering. And all they ask in return is favored access

We have a mutual defense treaty with Thailand. We are celebrating 200 years of diplomatic relations with them.. the longest of any country in Asia. We criticized them over the latest military coup, refused some photo ops, and because of that public loss of face, they have turned to China - for all kinds of favored partner deals. That may not be a big deal to you and the rest of the global scolds, but the day is coming when our economic and strategic decisions are going to be made for us, and it will be because we alienated all of our allies with silly, useless pabulum and called it diplomacy - and China will control who will trade with us and who will not.

The cliffs notes of all of this is that China acts in their own interests, and we frequently do not.
Good for China; that's how you should build nations while simultaneously investing into the long-term growth of your own economy. And it's something many of us (including myself) have called for. But Americans bitch and moan about how we're investing into other nations instead of putting the money at home.

However, we're ok to go in guns a blazing, destroying countries, and then building 'em back up. Or we're good with forcing a nation to follow our values instead of simply letting them do their own thing and working economically off each other.

This is why it's hard for me, as a citizen observer of the machine, to take you seriously. I come from a generation that's literally only known war and super shitty foreign policy. Like it or not, of everything you've posted, you've been part of that shitty foreign affairs machine for decades. It's a failed system, but you want to perpetuate it (like doubling down on our military industrial complex). And if I'm wrong, which you think I am, please understand your generation has done a TERRIBLE job selling your policies. We're literally about to start sending troops into wars that were started BEFORE those troops were born...insanity.

So again, good for China; we should learn from them - there's no shame in copying something that works. But I'm not going to sit here and continually listen to those preaching they know best when for my entire lifetime, the opposite has been the case.
This is neither here nor there, but I don't think CID has been in the foreign service for decades. :coffee:
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by Ibanez »

CAA Flagship wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote: Hell no. I want to leave a better US for the next generation so they can write their own stories.
I'm not sure how you propose to do that, but it begs the question:
Has America already peaked at some point in it's history? If so, when was it? Or is the best yet to come? What would take place to make it better?
June 6, 1944. :coffee:
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by Winterborn »

Ibanez wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: I'm not sure how you propose to do that, but it begs the question:
Has America already peaked at some point in it's history? If so, when was it? Or is the best yet to come? What would take place to make it better?
June 6, 1944. :coffee:
I would say 40's though the 50's. It has been all down hill since then. The thing is that time frame put us so far ahead of everybody else that we still coasted to a landing on the moon.
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Winterborn wrote:
Ibanez wrote: June 6, 1944. :coffee:
I would say 40's though the 50's. It has been all down hill since then. The thing is that time frame put us so far ahead of everybody else that we still coasted to a landing on the moon.
Yes, the 40s and 50s were America's peak. The 40s and 50s where racism and segregation was rampant, laws against homosexuality and abortions existed, women could ether be a secretary or teacher and that's about it, miners and factory workers died daily from the lack of safety regulations, smog was a huge issue in most American cities, asbestos was being used in practically everything constructed, cigarettes were advertised to teens, and autistic children were thrown into mental health asylums.

It's been all downhill since. :nod:
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by Winterborn »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Winterborn wrote:
I would say 40's though the 50's. It has been all down hill since then. The thing is that time frame put us so far ahead of everybody else that we still coasted to a landing on the moon.
Yes, the 40s and 50s were America's peak. The 40s and 50s where racism and segregation was rampant, laws against homosexuality and abortions existed, women could ether be a secretary or teacher and that's about it, miners and factory workers died daily from the lack of safety regulations, smog was a huge issue in most American cities, asbestos was being used in practically everything constructed, cigarettes were advertised to teens, and autistic children were thrown into mental health asylums.

It's been all downhill since. :nod:
Guess it is all how you look at it. I was looking at the question from a technology/world influence standpoint and not a social/cultural outlook. More of a macro outlook then a micro.
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by SDHornet »

Ibanez wrote:
SDHornet wrote: I was hoping for a longer drawn out battle. I really needed the market to take a bigger dip than it did. :x
:lol: :lol: Looking to buy a new home?
No, other investments though. :coffee:
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by Ibanez »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Winterborn wrote:
I would say 40's though the 50's. It has been all down hill since then. The thing is that time frame put us so far ahead of everybody else that we still coasted to a landing on the moon.
Yes, the 40s and 50s were America's peak. The 40s and 50s where racism and segregation was rampant, laws against homosexuality and abortions existed, women could ether be a secretary or teacher and that's about it, miners and factory workers died daily from the lack of safety regulations, smog was a huge issue in most American cities, asbestos was being used in practically everything constructed, cigarettes were advertised to teens, and autistic children were thrown into mental health asylums.

It's been all downhill since. :nod:
My post was in jest.
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by Winterborn »

Ibanez wrote:My post was in jest.
It was a good reason for me to try and stir the pot. :poke: :)
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by andy7171 »

The only pot you're stirring is trip's more inane rantings of millenial speak.
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Re: Trump Tariffs = Tax Hike on all

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Ibanez wrote:My post was in jest.
I know yours was. :thumb:

But I firmly believe America's never been better, but it can always be even more so.
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