Blue Wave 2018

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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by Ibanez »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Eh.

I'm talking about a similar position to Cid, 93, and Conor Lamb.

Someone that thinks abortion should be legal before 20 weeks and someone that thinks abortion should be legal before 23 weeks essentially agree, imo.

Debating what week an abortion should be illegal isn't the national debate.

Republicans will only nominate SCOTUS judges who will overturn Roe v Wade. Overturning Roe v Wade is part of the Republican Platform.
:thumb: That's it right there. It's a binary predicament. You either allow it or you don't. That's the debate.

Battling over the moment it's a life is a losing battle. Is it conception? Is it 5 weeks later when the heart begins to beat? 10, 11, or 12 weeks when it resembles a human and not some tadpole?


23 weeks is the earliest a baby can be born and still have a chance at survival. Is that where we draw this imaginary line?
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by Skjellyfetti »

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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by 89Hen »

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Precisely my view on it

I've been called right wing to my face for it.
Oh the humanity...

:lol:

Conservatives and abortion is always good for a laugh
If men got pregnant you could get an abortion at the airport between flights
and birth control would be in beer as an additive
And here we go. You are either fishing, or just stupid. I'll give you the bene and say you were fishing.
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by Skjellyfetti »

89Hen wrote:I'll give you the bene and say you were fishing.
I think it's spelled beignet ;)
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by 89Hen »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Debating what week an abortion should be illegal isn't the national debate.
Nor should it be. The pro-choice side is the only one who internally debates that moving target.
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by 89Hen »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
89Hen wrote:I'll give you the bene and say you were fishing.
I think it's spelled beignet ;)
Yum, the French can cook. I'll give them that. :D
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by dbackjon »

CID1990 wrote:
dbackjon wrote:LMAO at the spin. This is the same guy that the White House and GOP were calling a Nancy Pelosi Liberal on Monday.

He is Pro-Choice
He is Pro-Obamacare
He is for Social Security and Medicare
He is against the GOP Tax Scam
He is for Job Training - something the Dems push, Trump has opposed
Student Loan reform

Yeah, that looks like he distanced himself from the Democrats.

And the Conk Candidate - typical GOP - if you are saying he was pretty bad, then you just described 90% of the Republcan Party.

As for the district not existing - yes and no. The heavily GOP Gerrymandered map was thrown out and re-drawn (which the GOP is still fighting). Lamb will be in A district. And an incumbent.
He's pro abortion?

I had heard the opposite. Maybe my info is wrong

My impression is that he's slightly right of Joe Manchin

doesn't that make him Hitler?


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Pro-Choice. He's against it personally, but supports the women's right to choose, and would vote against restrictions like the 20-week limit
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by dbackjon »

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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by 89Hen »

Honestly, the only thing I saw on Lamb before the election was that he was laying low and not saying much.
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by GannonFan »

89Hen wrote:Honestly, the only thing I saw on Lamb before the election was that he was laying low and not saying much.
Well, it was just a Congressional election - people in that district were really the targets of any advertisements or such.
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by GannonFan »

dbackjon wrote:Image
He did pointedly disavow Pelosi and even had Tim Ryan, who ran against Pelosi for the Minority Leader job in 2016, come in to campaign for him. Certainly a good thing for the Democratic Party - pulling back towards the center from the fringe left is a good recipe for winning back the House in November.

Plus, if they do win back the House, hopefully pulling in more moderates will avoid the potential trap of pushing for impeachment of Trump - without the Senate (and even if the Dems win the Senate, which they likely won't, they won't have enough for removal from office), the Dems chance making Trump and his supporters more interested in winning a second term in 2020. Win back the House, stay low on impeachment, and find someone credible enough to run against Trump in 2020 and hopefully Trump supporters won't be motivated. Go through an impeachment, and we could be looking at 4 more years.
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by 89Hen »

GannonFan wrote:
89Hen wrote:Honestly, the only thing I saw on Lamb before the election was that he was laying low and not saying much.
Well, it was just a Congressional election - people in that district were really the targets of any advertisements or such.
It's just really strange for one side to portray their opponent in a different light when they're campaigning against them.
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by BDKJMU »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Yeah, if you think Roe v. Wade should be overturned - you're pretty far to the right on abortion.

If you're not personally opposed to it except in extreme cases - you're pretty far to the left on abortion.

Both sides love trying to paint the other side as all on the extreme either way - overwhelming majority essentially agree on abortion. :thumb:
Not necessarily. You could be against outlawing abortion, but for Roe v Wade being overturned with zero to do with religious or moral reasons but simply believing it’s a states’ rights issue.

Overturning Roe v Wade wouldn’t outlaw abortion, but would simply kick the issue back to the states.
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

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Ivytalk wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:I know some of you think CNN if "fake news" but I'll go ahead and use their description at https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/13/politics ... index.html of Lamb's position on abortion because it's succinct and consistent with what I've heard/seen from multiple sources:



So it looks to me like he's doing that thing of saying "I'm personally opposed to it but I'm not going to impose my view on others."
So now we’re seeing the beginning of the JSO Connor Lamb Apology Tour? :rofl: This from a guy who has said that it’s critical to flip at least one house of Congress to the Donks, so I guess it makes sense in a “foolish consistency” sort of way.

Some “conservative” you are. :roll:
I don't agree with Lamb's position on abortion. Life begins at conception. Abortion should be illegal except in cases where the mother's life is in danger so that the choice is either save one life or lose both.

Nevertheless, the country needs for the Democrats to take at least one House of Congress this next time.
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

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JohnStOnge wrote:
Ivytalk wrote: So now we’re seeing the beginning of the JSO Connor Lamb Apology Tour? :rofl: This from a guy who has said that it’s critical to flip at least one house of Congress to the Donks, so I guess it makes sense in a “foolish consistency” sort of way.

Some “conservative” you are. :roll:
I don't agree with Lamb's position on abortion. Life begins at conception. Abortion should be illegal except in cases where the mother's life is in danger so that the choice is either save one life or lose both.

Nevertheless, the country needs for the Democrats to take at least one House of Congress this next time.
John that's a social conservative position not a libertarian one. Are you sure you're a libertarian?
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by Ivytalk »

UNI88 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote: I don't agree with Lamb's position on abortion. Life begins at conception. Abortion should be illegal except in cases where the mother's life is in danger so that the choice is either save one life or lose both.

Nevertheless, the country needs for the Democrats to take at least one House of Congress this next time.
John that's a social conservative position not a libertarian one. Are you sure you're a libertarian?
There is a strong pro-life faction in the LP. Probably a minority, but vocal. Austin Petersen, the guy who finished second to Gary Johnson at the LP convention, is pro-life.
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by UNI88 »

Ivytalk wrote:
UNI88 wrote: John that's a social conservative position not a libertarian one. Are you sure you're a libertarian?
There is a strong pro-life faction in the LP. Probably a minority, but vocal. Austin Petersen, the guy who finished second to Gary Johnson at the LP convention, is pro-life.
Does the pro-life faction really belong in the LP? It seems to me that a libertarian would believe the government should stay out of that decision just like it should stay out of the bedroom and the gun safe. Why don't party members argue about this the way they argued about whether Johnson and Weld were really Libertarians?
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by Ivytalk »

UNI88 wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:
There is a strong pro-life faction in the LP. Probably a minority, but vocal. Austin Petersen, the guy who finished second to Gary Johnson at the LP convention, is pro-life.
Does the pro-life faction really belong in the LP? It seems to me that a libertarian would believe the government should stay out of that decision just like it should stay out of the bedroom and the gun safe. Why don't party members argue about this the way they argued about whether Johnson and Weld were really Libertarians?
They do argue about it but, as I said, pro-choice is the majority view. One could argue that fetuses have a right not to have their lives interfered with, either. I happen to share that view.
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by JohnStOnge »

UNI88 wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:
There is a strong pro-life faction in the LP. Probably a minority, but vocal. Austin Petersen, the guy who finished second to Gary Johnson at the LP convention, is pro-life.
Does the pro-life faction really belong in the LP? It seems to me that a libertarian would believe the government should stay out of that decision just like it should stay out of the bedroom and the gun safe. Why don't party members argue about this the way they argued about whether Johnson and Weld were really Libertarians?
It all comes down to the question of when life begins. I think all Libertarians would say that one person cannot kill another person unless there are specific circumstances such as those involving self-defense. If you believe life begins at conception and that abortion is killing a person being "pro life" is perfectly consistent with being a Libertarian. It's no more contrary to the Libertarian philosophy than saying my right to Liberty doesn't mean I can walk up to some random person on the street and blow their brains out is.
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by CID1990 »

I'm pro-life and I'm pretty libertarian


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Re: Blue Wave 2018

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CID1990 wrote:I'm pro-life and I'm pretty libertarian


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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by Skjellyfetti »

CID1990 wrote:I'm pro-life and I'm pretty libertarian
If you're pro-life then I'm pro-life. :shock:

You just stated your position earlier and I agreed with it. It sounded closer to pro-choice to me. But, I dunno. :suspicious:
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by CID1990 »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
CID1990 wrote:I'm pro-life and I'm pretty libertarian
If you're pro-life then I'm pro-life. :shock:

You just stated your position earlier and I agreed with it. It sounded closer to pro-choice to me. But, I dunno. :suspicious:
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by Skjellyfetti »

:clap:
The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday denied Pennsylvania Republicans' request to stop the imposition of new congressional districts ahead of the 2018 midterms.

A statement from the court said a request to stay a ruling from the Pennsylvania state Supreme Court had been denied without comment or recorded dissent. The state Supreme Court ruled the previous map, drawn by Republicans in the state Legislature and signed into law by then-GOP Gov. Tom Corbett, was a partisan gerrymander that violated the state's constitution.

The court’s statement followed an order from a three-judge panel earlier Monday turning down a Republican request to halt the new map at a federal district court in Pennsylvania — and essentially leaves Republicans with little recourse to stop the new district lines before the May 15 primary elections.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/ ... map-471851
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Re: Blue Wave 2018

Post by GannonFan »

Skjellyfetti wrote::clap:
The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday denied Pennsylvania Republicans' request to stop the imposition of new congressional districts ahead of the 2018 midterms.

A statement from the court said a request to stay a ruling from the Pennsylvania state Supreme Court had been denied without comment or recorded dissent. The state Supreme Court ruled the previous map, drawn by Republicans in the state Legislature and signed into law by then-GOP Gov. Tom Corbett, was a partisan gerrymander that violated the state's constitution.

The court’s statement followed an order from a three-judge panel earlier Monday turning down a Republican request to halt the new map at a federal district court in Pennsylvania — and essentially leaves Republicans with little recourse to stop the new district lines before the May 15 primary elections.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/ ... map-471851
All this does, though, is to put the power of the gerrymander into the hands of the elected PA Supreme Court. This time, it's Democrats that control the PA Supreme Court and they drew the map, while more compact, but with the details of where the lines were to benefit Democrats (municipalities, counties, were split in such ways to ensure this). If the GOP gets control of the PA Supreme Court, then they can do the same too. Suppose it makes it more simple to gerrymander, since now you just need to win 4 of the 7 seats, rather than the 253 seats or so in the PA General Assembly (both houses) but it does make the PA Supreme Court a hugely political battleground now. Doesn't necessarily move the needle one way or the other on gerrymandering per se, just changes the location where the parties gerrymander from.
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