The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Political discussions
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59476
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by kalm »

A Bill and Mary grad and Elon professor has put together an extensive database of white supremacists and is using it to expose them.

SJW with too much time on her hands?

Fighting the good fight against Nazi scum?

She claims to be ethically driven and appears to be thorough in getting the identities correct. However she then turns the info over to the SPLC and Antifa which I'm sure does not sit well with some of you.

Interesting read.
Critics might still argue that public shaming of the kind Squire promotes constitutes a watered-down form of doxing, and that this willingness to take matters into their own hands makes Squire and her cohort no better than vigilantes. As David Snyder, executive director of the First Amendment Coalition, says of Squire’s work: “Is it ethical to digitally stalk people? It may not be. Is it legal? Probably, as long as she doesn’t hack into their accounts and she’s collecting information they post publicly on an open platform like Facebook.” But he warns that limiting speech of anyone, even white supremacists, starts down a slippery slope. “Political winds can shift across time. Liberals who might cheer at a university limiting neo-Nazi speech also have to worry about the flip side of that situation when someone like Trump might penalize them in the future.”

As far as Squire is concerned, there’s a clear difference between protected speech and speech that poses an imminent threat to public safety. “Richard Spencer yelling about wanting a white ethno-state after events like Charlottesville—it’s hard to argue that kind of speech doesn’t constitute danger.”

Ultimately, Squire sees her work as a type of “fusion center”—a government term for a data center that integrates intelligence from different agencies—for groups combating white nationalism. And she admits that she is outsourcing some of the ethical complexities of her work by handing her data off to a variety of actors. “But it’s the same as how Facebook is hypocritical in claiming to be ‘just a platform’ and not taking responsibility for hate. Every time we invent a technology to solve a problem, it introduces a bunch more problems. At least I’m attentive to the problems I’ve caused.” Squire sees herself as having to make difficult choices inside a system where old guidelines have been upended by the seismic powers of the internet. White nationalists can be tracked and followed, and therefore she believes she has a moral obligation to do so. As long as law enforcement keeps “missing” threats like James Alex Fields, she says, “I don’t have any moral quandaries about this. I know I’m following rules and ethics that I can stand up for.”

After Charlottesville, some white supremacist groups did find themselves pushed off certain social media and hosting sites by left-wing activists and tech companies wary of being associated with Nazis. These groups relocated to platforms like the far-right Twitter clone Gab and Russia’s Facebook-lite VK. Squire sees this as a victory, believing that if white nationalists flee to the confines of the alt-right echo chamber, their ability to recruit and organize weakens. “If the knowledge that we’re monitoring them on Facebook drives them to a darker corner of the internet, that’s good,” she asserts.

That doesn’t mean Squire won’t follow them there. She has no plans to stop digitally surveilling far-right extremists, wherever they may be. After Jason Kessler, the organizer of the Unite the Right rally, was unverified on Twitter, he joined VK. His first post read, “Hello VK! I’d rather the Russians have my information than Mark Zuckerberg.” The declaration was quickly scooped up by Squire. She had already built out Whack-a-Mole to track him there too.
https://www.wired.com/story/free-speech ... nsiteshare
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
andy7171
Firefly
Firefly
Posts: 27951
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:12 am
I am a fan of: Wiping.
A.K.A.: HE HATE ME
Location: Eastern Palouse

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by andy7171 »

Too much words.
"Elaine, you're from Baltimore, right?"
"Yes, well, Towson actually."
User avatar
Winterborn
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 8812
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:33 pm
I am a fan of: Beer and Diesel Pickups
Location: Wherever I hang my hat

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by Winterborn »

All it takes is for her to get one identity wrong and then there will be lawsuits. Also on the flip side, what happens when the other side does the same thing and takes it to the next step?........
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59476
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote:All it takes is for her to get one identity wrong and then there will be lawsuits. Also on the flip side, what happens when the other side does the same thing and takes it to the next step?........
They have. She’s been doxed, receives death threats, letters to Elon demanding she be fired, signs put up in her yard etc.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Pwns
Level4
Level4
Posts: 7274
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:38 pm
I am a fan of: Georgia Friggin' Southern
A.K.A.: FCS_pwns_FBS (AGS)

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by Pwns »

Winterborn wrote:All it takes is for her to get one identity wrong and then there will be lawsuits. Also on the flip side, what happens when the other side does the same thing and takes it to the next step?........
Doesn't have to be a mistaken identity. And a lawsuit is not the worst thing that can happen. You are fvcking with people's livelihoods, here. Wouldn't feel too sympathetic if she ended up at ambient temperature in a ditch somewhere.
Celebrate Diversity.*
*of appearance only. Restrictions apply.
User avatar
Winterborn
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 8812
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:33 pm
I am a fan of: Beer and Diesel Pickups
Location: Wherever I hang my hat

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote:
Winterborn wrote:All it takes is for her to get one identity wrong and then there will be lawsuits. Also on the flip side, what happens when the other side does the same thing and takes it to the next step?........
They have. She’s been doxed, receives death threats, letters to Elon demanding she be fired, signs put up in her yard etc.
It would be interesting to know what Elon's lawyers think of this and if the University knew of her side project. If she used University's equipment (laptop) or did it on work time they probably would get named in any legal actions. Even if they do not, it is going to seem like the University is condoning her actions and picking a side.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59476
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote:
kalm wrote:
They have. She’s been doxed, receives death threats, letters to Elon demanding she be fired, signs put up in her yard etc.
It would be interesting to know what Elon's lawyers think of this and if the University knew of her side project. If she used University's equipment (laptop) or did it on work time they probably would get named in any legal actions. Even if they do not, it is going to seem like the University is condoning her actions and picking a side.
Well at least they’d be picking the anti-nazi side...
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
CID1990
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25460
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
I am a fan of: Pie
A.K.A.: CID 1990
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by CID1990 »

Usually my opposition to people like this isn’t in what they are doing, but rather what they define as a white supremacist. I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume (with a high probability of being correct) that she would consider me a white supremacist.
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
Ibanez
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 60482
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:16 pm
I am a fan of: Coastal Carolina

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by Ibanez »

The language is interesting: she's a left-wing ACTIVIST alongside Antifa and she opposes right-wing EXTREMISTS.
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59476
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by kalm »

Ibanez wrote:The language is interesting: she's a left-wing ACTIVIST alongside Antifa and she opposes right-wing EXTREMISTS.
Good catch, especially with disseminating info to Antifa but for the sake of argument, are you saying one can’t be anti-nazi while remaining moderate in their own beliefs?

The Bush and Obama administrations probably shared intel with Saudi Arabia...does that make them extremists?
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
GannonFan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 18065
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:51 am
I am a fan of: Delaware
A.K.A.: Non-Partisan Hack

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote:
Winterborn wrote:
It would be interesting to know what Elon's lawyers think of this and if the University knew of her side project. If she used University's equipment (laptop) or did it on work time they probably would get named in any legal actions. Even if they do not, it is going to seem like the University is condoning her actions and picking a side.
Well at least they’d be picking the anti-nazi side...
Odd of course, as her tactics are very similar to what the actual Nazis did to enforce their purity of thought in pre-war Germany. Her intentions are certainly more noble, although I'm sure the actual Nazi's thought their actions were noble as well.
Proud Member of the Blue Hen Nation
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 59476
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Well at least they’d be picking the anti-nazi side...
Odd of course, as her tactics are very similar to what the actual Nazis did to enforce their purity of thought in pre-war Germany. Her intentions are certainly more noble, although I'm sure the actual Nazi's thought their actions were noble as well.
Agreed. That’s what makes it an interesting story. The desire to silence a viewpoint has its red flags.
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Winterborn
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 8812
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:33 pm
I am a fan of: Beer and Diesel Pickups
Location: Wherever I hang my hat

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote:
Winterborn wrote:
It would be interesting to know what Elon's lawyers think of this and if the University knew of her side project. If she used University's equipment (laptop) or did it on work time they probably would get named in any legal actions. Even if they do not, it is going to seem like the University is condoning her actions and picking a side.
Well at least they’d be picking the anti-nazi side...
In a case like this neither side is right.
“The best of all things is to learn. Money can be lost or stolen, health and strength may fail, but what you have committed to your mind is yours forever.” – Louis L’Amour

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” - G. Michael Hopf

"I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.” – Albert Einstein
Ibanez
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 60482
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:16 pm
I am a fan of: Coastal Carolina

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by Ibanez »

kalm wrote:
Ibanez wrote:The language is interesting: she's a left-wing ACTIVIST alongside Antifa and she opposes right-wing EXTREMISTS.
Good catch, especially with disseminating info to Antifa but for the sake of argument, are you saying one can’t be anti-nazi while remaining moderate in their own beliefs?

The Bush and Obama administrations probably shared intel with Saudi Arabia...does that make them extremists?
That is not what i'm saying. You can certainly be anti-evil and moderate in your own beliefs/actions. I think all of us here are moderate in our beliefs about Westboro or Neo Nazis. Her sharing of intel with the SPLC isn't bad, AFAIC. Say what you want about them, but the SPLC isn't threatening to beat you up.

However, you blur the lines when you begin aiding a violent and extremist group like Antifa. Antifa will show up at your house to harass, intimidate and possible hurt you if you don't think like them (which is hypocritical, but I digress.) The SPLC is going to show up with a subpoena.

In my book, Antifa and Neo-Nazis are the same breed. Both are violent representatives of their beliefs.
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
Ibanez
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 60482
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:16 pm
I am a fan of: Coastal Carolina

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by Ibanez »

kalm wrote:
GannonFan wrote:
Odd of course, as her tactics are very similar to what the actual Nazis did to enforce their purity of thought in pre-war Germany. Her intentions are certainly more noble, although I'm sure the actual Nazi's thought their actions were noble as well.
Agreed. That’s what makes it an interesting story. The desire to silence a viewpoint has its red flags.
Which makes this all the more fascinating since these left-wing "activists" want to preserve some idea of the United States. They are willing to ignore the first 2 amendments. :lol:

I like this statement:
Antifa believes it is pursuing the opposite of authoritarianism. Many of its activists oppose the very notion of a centralized state. But in the name of protecting the vulnerable, antifascists have granted themselves the authority to decide which Americans may publicly assemble and which may not. That authority rests on no democratic foundation.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ft/534192/
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
User avatar
Chizzang
Level5
Level5
Posts: 19273
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:36 am
I am a fan of: Deflate Gate
A.K.A.: The Quasar Kid
Location: Soon to be Eden Prairie...

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by Chizzang »

The way you make a Nazi go away in the world today isn't by creating an equal opposite force
ANTIFA and Rampant misguided social justice create more Nazis than anybody and anything else

crazy people don't actually understand this point...
The insane hate the insane and need an equal but opposite insanity to reinforce their viewpoints

The least reactive calmest most logical side will win out over time...
Emphasis on "least reactive"
Q: Name something that offends Republicans?
A: The actual teachings of Jesus
Ibanez
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 60482
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:16 pm
I am a fan of: Coastal Carolina

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by Ibanez »

Chizzang wrote:The way you make a Nazi go away in the world today isn't by creating an equal opposite force
ANTIFA and Rampant misguided social justice create more Nazis than anybody and anything else


crazy people don't actually understand this point...
The insane hate the insane and need an equal but opposite insanity to reinforce their viewpoints

The least reactive calmest most logical side will win out over time...
Emphasis on "least reactive"
I was thinking the same thing when I read the article kalm posted. :clap:
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
User avatar
93henfan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 56357
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:03 pm
Location: Slower Delaware

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by 93henfan »

Pwns wrote:
Winterborn wrote:All it takes is for her to get one identity wrong and then there will be lawsuits. Also on the flip side, what happens when the other side does the same thing and takes it to the next step?........
Doesn't have to be a mistaken identity. And a lawsuit is not the worst thing that can happen. You are fvcking with people's livelihoods, here. Wouldn't feel too sympathetic if she ended up at ambient temperature in a ditch somewhere.
Dilly dilly.
Delaware Football: 1889-2012; 2022-
User avatar
89Hen
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 39224
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:13 pm
I am a fan of: High Horses
A.K.A.: The Almighty Arbiter

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by 89Hen »

Image
Image
User avatar
Pwns
Level4
Level4
Posts: 7274
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:38 pm
I am a fan of: Georgia Friggin' Southern
A.K.A.: FCS_pwns_FBS (AGS)

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by Pwns »

Chizzang wrote:The way you make a Nazi go away in the world today isn't by creating an equal opposite force
ANTIFA and Rampant misguided social justice create more Nazis than anybody and anything else

crazy people don't actually understand this point...
The insane hate the insane and need an equal but opposite insanity to reinforce their viewpoints

The least reactive calmest most logical side will win out over time...
Emphasis on "least reactive"
This is spot on. That poop storm at Mizzou probably created more white nationalists than Trump being elected.
Celebrate Diversity.*
*of appearance only. Restrictions apply.
User avatar
Chizzang
Level5
Level5
Posts: 19273
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:36 am
I am a fan of: Deflate Gate
A.K.A.: The Quasar Kid
Location: Soon to be Eden Prairie...

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by Chizzang »

Pwns wrote:
Chizzang wrote:The way you make a Nazi go away in the world today isn't by creating an equal opposite force
ANTIFA and Rampant misguided social justice create more Nazis than anybody and anything else

crazy people don't actually understand this point...
The insane hate the insane and need an equal but opposite insanity to reinforce their viewpoints

The least reactive calmest most logical side will win out over time...
Emphasis on "least reactive"
This is spot on. That poop storm at Mizzou probably created more white nationalists than Trump being elected.
I firmly believe Trump got elected as a "reaction" to the INSANE LEFT
trump didn't create anything - he's a direct result of action/reaction

In effect the worlds loudest "Fuck You"

:nod:
Q: Name something that offends Republicans?
A: The actual teachings of Jesus
User avatar
Col Hogan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 12230
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:29 am
I am a fan of: William & Mary
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by Col Hogan »

Chizzang wrote:
Pwns wrote:
This is spot on. That poop storm at Mizzou probably created more white nationalists than Trump being elected.
I firmly believe Trump got elected as a "reaction" to the INSANE LEFT
trump didn't create anything - he's a direct result of action/reaction

In effect the worlds loudest "**** You"

:nod:
:nod:
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
User avatar
GannonFan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 18065
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:51 am
I am a fan of: Delaware
A.K.A.: Non-Partisan Hack

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by GannonFan »

Col Hogan wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
I firmly believe Trump got elected as a "reaction" to the INSANE LEFT
trump didn't create anything - he's a direct result of action/reaction

In effect the worlds loudest "**** You"

:nod:
:nod:
Agreed.
Proud Member of the Blue Hen Nation
Ibanez
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 60482
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:16 pm
I am a fan of: Coastal Carolina

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by Ibanez »

Chizzang wrote:
Pwns wrote:
This is spot on. That poop storm at Mizzou probably created more white nationalists than Trump being elected.
I firmly believe Trump got elected as a "reaction" to the INSANE LEFT
trump didn't create anything - he's a direct result of action/reaction

In effect the worlds loudest "Fuck You"

:nod:
He did. Trump is a large, orange, middle finger to the status quo. :thumb:
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
User avatar
CID1990
Level5
Level5
Posts: 25460
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
I am a fan of: Pie
A.K.A.: CID 1990
Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Re: The Cyber Civil War is Afoot?

Post by CID1990 »

Chizzang wrote:
Pwns wrote:
This is spot on. That poop storm at Mizzou probably created more white nationalists than Trump being elected.
I firmly believe Trump got elected as a "reaction" to the INSANE LEFT
trump didn't create anything - he's a direct result of action/reaction

In effect the worlds loudest "**** You"

:nod:
And the way to figure out exactly who the insane left is..

is to see who is hyperventilating over Trump's doctor checkup, comments about sh1tholes and grabbing pussies, etc etc

Meanwhile, both houses of Congress passed a new, unconstitutional 8 year FISA bill (with about 2/3rds majorities in both houses) and the Prez signed it.... all in about a 3 week period


I'm waiting for CNN and others to actually have policy discussions.... its been a year and theyre still babbling


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
Post Reply