John F. Kelly Marine General / Chief of Staff

[Skjellyfetti]

Giving them some retroactive years of legal permanent resident status has been in almost all DREAM Act bills written by both parties. They'd still have to jump through the same hoops other permanent residents would have to get citizenship. And, there aren't that many hoops - much more difficult to get permanent residency than it is to get citizenship.

[JohnStOnge]

I'd say the more I see Kelly perform in his current position the more my opinion of him declines. Like his comment about the Democrat memo on the Page FISA warrant thing. Recall that the FBI objected to the first memo released by the House Republicans. The Democrats cleared their memo through the FBI. Yet today Kelly says this with respect to the Democrat memo:

It will be done in a responsible way. But again, where the first one was very clean relative to sources and methods, my initial cut is this one is a lot less clean

I'm sorry, but that's kind of a ridiculous thing to say when the intelligence agencies had the Republicans issue the first memo over their objections to it being problematic and the Democrats cleared theirs through the intelligence agencies. What we have here is someone setting it up for the possibility of refusing to issue the Democrat memo. The guy is rapidly losing his credibility.

[Ibanez]

It's a bit of both.

1) He's a Marine - not a politician. You have to understand that he's going to speak a different vernacular. Sure - moderate your speech for your audience but don't be upset when someone speaks like these and there's a grain of truth to it.

2) I 100% understand why someone would be afraid to sign up and that they think $500 every 2 years (which is ~$20/month) is a lot of money to apply and renew. I get that for children, coming up with that $ is difficult to come up with.

The solution seems like a no brainer - make them citizens. Put their fears to rest, make them citizens, give them a SSN and allow them to be out in the open. It's not their fault their parents broke the law. Some have been here for 35 years - all they've known is America. Make them citizens. If you want them to pay something, make it nominal and arrange it so their SSN triggers a tax that will be paid for 5 years. It costs about $725 to apply for citizenship - take an extra $12 out of their pay for 5 years if they can't pay for it up front. It isn't a perfect solution - but it's a start.


It's cheaper to become a citzen than to keep paying the renewals.

What do we do with the millions of Legal Permanent Residents (LPRs) who immigrated here legally, but have still not naturalized, and would like to just be "made US citizens"? Do we just make them US citizens, or do they still have to jump through the lawful hoops because they did the right thing?

This is what happens when you skirt the rule of law.

We have to be unfair to the law abiding in order to be fair to the law breakers.


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I said it wasn’t perfect


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[Skjellyfetti]

Or vouching for a wife beater earlier this week.

"a man of true integrity and honor"

[CitadelGrad]

Do you like it because you think he's right or because it's edgy?

You've tried desperately to be edgy for years. It hasn't really worked out for you.

[CID1990]

What do we do with the millions of Legal Permanent Residents (LPRs) who immigrated here legally, but have still not naturalized, and would like to just be "made US citizens"? Do we just make them US citizens, or do they still have to jump through the lawful hoops because they did the right thing?

This is what happens when you skirt the rule of law.

We have to be unfair to the law abiding in order to be fair to the law breakers.


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I said it wasn’t perfect


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Well then, how about this more perfect solution -

1) Grant all the Dreamers LPR status.
2) Create a modified pathway to citizenship that puts them in line behind the normal LPRs for naturalization. Say, a minimum of 8 years waiting period, while normal LPRs must only wait 5.

The main difference between a LPR and a citizen is that the LPR remains a citizen of their home country. If they commit a violent felony, their status can be revoked and they can be deported back to their country of origin. But as long as they behave, they can remain in the US forever if they so wish.

Done

Oh, and build a "wall" so we aren't doing this again in 20 years.

[CAA Flagship]

I said it wasn’t perfect


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Well then, how about this more perfect solution -

1) Grant all the Dreamers LPR status.
2) Create a modified pathway to citizenship that puts them in line behind the normal LPRs for naturalization. Say, a minimum of 8 years waiting period, while normal LPRs must only wait 5.

The main difference between a LPR and a citizen is that the LPR remains a citizen of their home country. If they commit a violent felony, their status can be revoked and they can be deported back to their country of origin. But as long as they behave, they can remain in the US forever if they so wish.

Done

Oh, and build a "wall" so we aren't doing this again in 20 years.

And absolutely no voting rights until citizenship is attained.

[CID1990]

Well then, how about this more perfect solution -

1) Grant all the Dreamers LPR status.
2) Create a modified pathway to citizenship that puts them in line behind the normal LPRs for naturalization. Say, a minimum of 8 years waiting period, while normal LPRs must only wait 5.

The main difference between a LPR and a citizen is that the LPR remains a citizen of their home country. If they commit a violent felony, their status can be revoked and they can be deported back to their country of origin. But as long as they behave, they can remain in the US forever if they so wish.

Done

Oh, and build a "wall" so we aren't doing this again in 20 years.

And absolutely no voting rights until citizenship is attained.

That is currently the case anyway

But many LPRs vote nonetheless - there is no citizenship verification for voting in many states

[Ibanez]

I said it wasn’t perfect


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Well then, how about this more perfect solution -

1) Grant all the Dreamers LPR status.
2) Create a modified pathway to citizenship that puts them in line behind the normal LPRs for naturalization. Say, a minimum of 8 years waiting period, while normal LPRs must only wait 5.

The main difference between a LPR and a citizen is that the LPR remains a citizen of their home country. If they commit a violent felony, their status can be revoked and they can be deported back to their country of origin. But as long as they behave, they can remain in the US forever if they so wish.

Done

Oh, and build a "wall" so we aren't doing this again in 20 years.

sounds good to me

[Col Hogan]

Kathy Griffin accuses General Kelly of beating his wife...

[dbackjon]

I said it wasn’t perfect


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Well then, how about this more perfect solution -

1) Grant all the Dreamers LPR status.
2) Create a modified pathway to citizenship that puts them in line behind the normal LPRs for naturalization. Say, a minimum of 8 years waiting period, while normal LPRs must only wait 5.

The main difference between a LPR and a citizen is that the LPR remains a citizen of their home country. If they commit a violent felony, their status can be revoked and they can be deported back to their country of origin. But as long as they behave, they can remain in the US forever if they so wish.

Done

Oh, and build a "wall" so we aren't doing this again in 20 years.

Agreed with 1 and 2. With an path for LPR and Dreamers to accelerate timeline with military service.

Trump's wall would do little to stem the tide. But you know that already.

[dbackjon]

And absolutely no voting rights until citizenship is attained.

That is currently the case anyway

But many LPRs vote nonetheless - there is no citizenship verification for voting in many states

Do you have proof to back up that claim in federal elections?

[CID1990]

That is currently the case anyway

But many LPRs vote nonetheless - there is no citizenship verification for voting in many states

Do you have proof to back up that claim in federal elections?

Yes.

Many LPRs send in copies of their voter registration cards in immigrant visa cases because they believe somehow that it serves as proof of status

In Vietnam, even non-LPRs who were renewing tourist visas would sometimes bring them in

So technically speaking, that isnt proof they voted... it is proof they were registered to do so.

Feel free to link to me if you are looking to prove to your friends that LPRs sometimes vote


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[CID1990]

Well then, how about this more perfect solution -

1) Grant all the Dreamers LPR status.
2) Create a modified pathway to citizenship that puts them in line behind the normal LPRs for naturalization. Say, a minimum of 8 years waiting period, while normal LPRs must only wait 5.

The main difference between a LPR and a citizen is that the LPR remains a citizen of their home country. If they commit a violent felony, their status can be revoked and they can be deported back to their country of origin. But as long as they behave, they can remain in the US forever if they so wish.

Done

Oh, and build a "wall" so we aren't doing this again in 20 years.

Agreed with 1 and 2. With an path for LPR and Dreamers to accelerate timeline with military service.

Trump's wall would do little to stem the tide. But you know that already.

There is already an expedited naturalization process for LPRs that serve in the military. If you knew anything about US immigration and naturalization you would have known that already.

Border apprehensions are down exponentially since Trump was elected - that's fact

People are choosing not to sneak in because it isnt perceived as being worth the money and effort against the probability of being allowed to stay if caught

thats a de facto "virtual" wall right there
and its working

Walls most certainly do work - just ask Hungary

or Fort Knox

or every Embassy I have ever worked at


Of all the opposition to the wall, the argument that "it won't work" is the most spurious.... you and your Dem friends should just drop the pretense and argue for those open borders you want


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[AZGrizFan]

Kathy Griffin accuses General Kelly of beating his wife...

Pure class, that one.

[JohnStOnge]

Do you have proof to back up that claim in federal elections?

Yes.

Many LPRs send in copies of their voter registration cards in immigrant visa cases because they believe somehow that it serves as proof of status

In Vietnam, even non-LPRs who were renewing tourist visas would sometimes bring them in

So technically speaking, that isnt proof they voted... it is proof they were registered to do so.

Feel free to link to me if you are looking to prove to your friends that LPRs sometimes vote


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With all due respect, none of that is proof. It's just assertion. You say "many LPRs send in copies of their voter registration cards." How many? Do you have a source you can point to to document that? That sort of thing. Basically what you're doing is saying "The proof is me saying so." That's not proof.

[CID1990]

Yes.

Many LPRs send in copies of their voter registration cards in immigrant visa cases because they believe somehow that it serves as proof of status

In Vietnam, even non-LPRs who were renewing tourist visas would sometimes bring them in

So technically speaking, that isnt proof they voted... it is proof they were registered to do so.

Feel free to link to me if you are looking to prove to your friends that LPRs sometimes vote


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With all due respect, none of that is proof. It's just assertion. You say "many LPRs send in copies of their voter registration cards." How many? Do you have a source you can point to to document that? That sort of thing. Basically what you're doing is saying "The proof is me saying so." That's not proof.

Yes, John.

The source I can point to is me. When I say "many LPRs send in copies of their voter registration cards", I mean that they have sent them to ME. I have held them in my hands. I have also accepted them through the visa windows from non-LPRs who were simply in the US on tourist visas. And there have been many of them, over a period of years.

I have also accepted driver's licenses and social security cards (legally available to LPRs and even non-citizens, by the way)

So as I said, this is not proof that they have actually voted. It is, however, proof that they can and do register to vote. I think it would take quite a suspension of disbelief that none of them have voted, but hey, I suppose it is possible. I never walked into a voting booth with them. And when I say "many" LPRs, it is because I have dealt with many LPRs. Myself. Me.

So if you want to question that, fine. But what you are debating is whether I am lying or not. Not whether what I am saying is proof or not.

[Skjellyfetti]

Do you think LPRs or even non-green card holders shouldn't have driver's licenses or social security cards?

Wife would lose her driver's license - but, at least she wouldn't have to pay social security.

[BDKJMU]

Well then, how about this more perfect solution -

1) Grant all the Dreamers LPR status.
2) Create a modified pathway to citizenship that puts them in line behind the normal LPRs for naturalization. Say, a minimum of 8 years waiting period, while normal LPRs must only wait 5.

The main difference between a LPR and a citizen is that the LPR remains a citizen of their home country. If they commit a violent felony, their status can be revoked and they can be deported back to their country of origin. But as long as they behave, they can remain in the US forever if they so wish.

Done

Oh, and build a "wall" so we aren't doing this again in 20 years.

Agreed with 1 and 2. With an path for LPR and Dreamers to accelerate timeline with military service.

Trump's wall would do little to stem the tide. But you know that already.

And in 20 years you’d be all for legalizing the next batch of several million ‘Dreamers’.

[BDKJMU]

Do you think LPRs or even non-green card holders shouldn't have driver's licenses or social security cards?

Wife would lose her driver's license - but, at least she wouldn't have to pay social security.

Of course LPRs and other legal immigrants should be able to have DLs. But illegal immigrants shouldn’t.

[CID1990]

Do you think LPRs or even non-green card holders shouldn't have driver's licenses or social security cards?

Wife would lose her driver's license - but, at least she wouldn't have to pay social security.

Did I say that?

They can and they do. How is a non LPR refugee with work authorization supposed to pay taxes without a SSN or get to work without a DL?


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[93henfan]

Tick tock

President Donald Trump, furious over the handling of domestic abuse allegations involving one of his closest aides, has spoken to confidantes about the possibility of replacing embattled Chief of Staff John Kelly, sources close to the president tell ABC News.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sources- ... d=52970133

[93henfan]

"a man of true integrity and honor"

Also a southpaw it looks like.

[JohnStOnge]

With all due respect, none of that is proof. It's just assertion. You say "many LPRs send in copies of their voter registration cards." How many? Do you have a source you can point to to document that? That sort of thing. Basically what you're doing is saying "The proof is me saying so." That's not proof.

Yes, John.

The source I can point to is me. When I say "many LPRs send in copies of their voter registration cards", I mean that they have sent them to ME. I have held them in my hands. I have also accepted them through the visa windows from non-LPRs who were simply in the US on tourist visas. And there have been many of them, over a period of years.

I have also accepted driver's licenses and social security cards (legally available to LPRs and even non-citizens, by the way)

So as I said, this is not proof that they have actually voted. It is, however, proof that they can and do register to vote. I think it would take quite a suspension of disbelief that none of them have voted, but hey, I suppose it is possible. I never walked into a voting booth with them. And when I say "many" LPRs, it is because I have dealt with many LPRs. Myself. Me.

So if you want to question that, fine. But what you are debating is whether I am lying or not. Not whether what I am saying is proof or not.

You know, I almost typed when I wrote the post to which you responded that what you were basically doing is saying "because I say so" without any external validation. Here's the problem beyond that: "Many" is a subjective term. What is the number? What is the number as a percentage of the number of people who are LPRs? That sort of thing.

In my job I see reports of people who become ill as a result of a certain activity all the time. And I mean ALL the time. I see people who die as a result of it all the time. But whether or not that means "many" people become ill or die as a result of it is subject to question. It depends on what people think "many" is. If you are me and you see it all the time you may think of it as common. But when you look at it in the grand scheme of things it is not.

[Chizzang]

Whelp... The writing is on the wall now
Kelly is calling the President an idiot in front of the general public

I figured he'd have lasted only a few months
The feisty old sum' bitch has done us proud

I'm guessing any day now he's gone