Charlottesville riots

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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by CID1990 »

CAA Flagship wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:Vancouver is in Canada
So is Montana. What's your point?
cut the kid a break - he just created a new sig line with that one


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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by Grizalltheway »

They only riot after hockey games in Vancouver North.
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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by CID1990 »

Grizalltheway wrote:They only riot after hockey games in Vancouver North.
eh?


do they say "eh" in US towns that are kinda close to Canada?


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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by Grizalltheway »

CID1990 wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote:They only riot after hockey games in Vancouver North.
eh?


do they say "eh" in US towns that are kinda close to Canada?


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No

They do fly the ol maple leaf though
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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by kalm »

CID1990 wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote:They only riot after hockey games in Vancouver North.
eh?


do they say "eh" in US towns that are kinda close to Canada?


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Do NC folks have that gay caballero/Clark Howard type accent like SC folks do?
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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by UNI88 »

Grizalltheway wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
eh?


do they say "eh" in US towns that are kinda close to Canada?


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No

They do fly the ol maple leaf though
You've never met a Yooper have you?
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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by CID1990 »

kalm wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
eh?


do they say "eh" in US towns that are kinda close to Canada?


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Do NC folks have that gay caballero/Clark Howard type accent like SC folks do?
They do in Charlotte and Boone


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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by Jjoey52 »

I like hearing the OBX Brogue.


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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by CID1990 »

Jjoey52 wrote:I like hearing the OBX Brogue.


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That's called a "High Tider"

My mother's whole family are high tiders from Hyde and Dare counties


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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by Jjoey52 »

I heard that when we were on vacation there and went to Okracoke.


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Re: RE: Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by houndawg »

mrklean wrote:
houndawg wrote:
We did allow them to knock the snot out of each other. We gave them just enough material to keep them from losing. FDR did a such a masterful job getting Russians to do the dying that Stalin must have been secretly impressed.
We never should have let the Russians take Eastern Europe.
We couldn't have stopped them.
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Re: RE: Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by mrklean »

houndawg wrote:
mrklean wrote: We never should have let the Russians take Eastern Europe.
We couldn't have stopped them.
The Russian did not want to fight us in 1945. We had the Air Power that the Germans did not. We would have blasted them back to the Stone Age. They had nothing to match our B-29's and P-51's.
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Re: RE: Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by houndawg »

mrklean wrote:
houndawg wrote:
We couldn't have stopped them.
The Russian did not want to fight us in 1945. We had the Air Power that the Germans did not. We would have blasted them back to the Stone Age. They had nothing to match our B-29's and P-51's.
They had a lot more boots on the ground. Couldn't have done it without nukes. After the way we used them to do the dying we sort of owed them one. :mrgreen:
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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by kalm »

CID1990 wrote:
kalm wrote:
Do NC folks have that gay caballero/Clark Howard type accent like SC folks do?
They do in Charlotte and Boone


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Re: RE: Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by houndawg »

Col Hogan wrote:
mrklean wrote:
So if we go with this time frame, it's 1944 or 45 and the Nazis have the ME-262 in mass production, they have their 4 engine Heavy Bomber ad they have a bunch of V2 Rockets.Yeah right :coffee:
Not only this, but Churchill was already pounding FDR to get into the Western Front in 43...Britain needed us to relieve the pressure...

As much as I hate the Commies, the US needed to keep Lend Lease going and needed to get involved when it did...
FDR doesn't get the credit he should for the statecraft involved in dribbling the lend lease out at a rate that allowed the Russians to keep fighting and dying but not become so powerful that they could roll over Europe. Once our manufacturing sector kicked in we didn't need to send troops if we didn't want to, we could have outfitted the huge Russian Army and stayed home, until Pearl Harbor of course. I think had better long term vision than he's credited with..
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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by CID1990 »

mrklean wrote:
houndawg wrote:
We couldn't have stopped them.
The Russian did not want to fight us in 1945. We had the Air Power that the Germans did not. We would have blasted them back to the Stone Age. They had nothing to match our B-29's and P-51's.
That's an oft repeated myth.

The Soviets had what was one of the best - if not the best - fighter of the war in the Yakovlev Yak-3. The high altitude variant was easily a contemporary to the P-51. The few non-Russian pilots to fly it almost uniformly agreed that it was superior to late model Spitfires and the P-51D.

Lavochkin also had two VERY good fighters - the La-7 and the La-9. The number one Allied fighter ace of WWII did not fly a Spitfire or a P-51. He flew a La-7... Ivan Kozhedub. He had 62 confirmed kills. Ironically, he went on to command a MiG-15 battalion on the North Korean border which was credited with shooting down something like 15 B-29s.

The Soviet capacity for mass producing aircraft by 1945 was very very good, and their aircraft and tank factories were well beyond the Urals. Stalin moved them there to keep them out of the reach of German forces after 1941. They were well beyond the reach of our B-29s from any place we could have staged them.

The Soviets also had thousands and thousands of late variant T-34 tanks in Eastern Europe in 1945, and nothing we had came anywhere close to it.

Any Allied offensive to roll the Soviets back from Eastern Europe would have been a very bloody affair and our prospects of getting past the Danube would have been very dicey.
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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by mrklean »

CID1990 wrote:
mrklean wrote: The Russian did not want to fight us in 1945. We had the Air Power that the Germans did not. We would have blasted them back to the Stone Age. They had nothing to match our B-29's and P-51's.
That's an oft repeated myth.

The Soviets had what was one of the best - if not the best - fighter of the war in the Yakovlev Yak-3. The high altitude variant was easily a contemporary to the P-51. The few non-Russian pilots to fly it almost uniformly agreed that it was superior to late model Spitfires and the P-51D.

Lavochkin also had two VERY good fighters - the La-7 and the La-9. The number one Allied fighter ace of WWII did not fly a Spitfire or a P-51. He flew a La-7... Ivan Kozhedub. He had 62 confirmed kills. Ironically, he went on to command a MiG-15 battalion on the North Korean border which was credited with shooting down something like 15 B-29s.

The Soviet capacity for mass producing aircraft by 1945 was very very good, and their aircraft and tank factories were well beyond the Urals. Stalin moved them there to keep them out of the reach of German forces after 1941. They were well beyond the reach of our B-29s from any place we could have staged them.

The Soviets also had thousands and thousands of late variant T-34 tanks in Eastern Europe in 1945, and nothing we had came anywhere close to it.

Any Allied offensive to roll the Soviets back from Eastern Europe would have been a very bloody affair and our prospects of getting past the Danube would have been very dicey.

I think we had enough Air power to push them back out of Poland. That's all Patton wanted. Patton knew we could not beat the Russians in a land war. They have too many men and we would have had to use nukes to thin them out. I don't think anyone would have wanted to use Nukes in Central Europe.
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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by CID1990 »

mrklean wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
That's an oft repeated myth.

The Soviets had what was one of the best - if not the best - fighter of the war in the Yakovlev Yak-3. The high altitude variant was easily a contemporary to the P-51. The few non-Russian pilots to fly it almost uniformly agreed that it was superior to late model Spitfires and the P-51D.

Lavochkin also had two VERY good fighters - the La-7 and the La-9. The number one Allied fighter ace of WWII did not fly a Spitfire or a P-51. He flew a La-7... Ivan Kozhedub. He had 62 confirmed kills. Ironically, he went on to command a MiG-15 battalion on the North Korean border which was credited with shooting down something like 15 B-29s.

The Soviet capacity for mass producing aircraft by 1945 was very very good, and their aircraft and tank factories were well beyond the Urals. Stalin moved them there to keep them out of the reach of German forces after 1941. They were well beyond the reach of our B-29s from any place we could have staged them.

The Soviets also had thousands and thousands of late variant T-34 tanks in Eastern Europe in 1945, and nothing we had came anywhere close to it.

Any Allied offensive to roll the Soviets back from Eastern Europe would have been a very bloody affair and our prospects of getting past the Danube would have been very dicey.

I think we had enough Air power to push them back out of Poland.
No we didn't

And Russia's supply line was MUCH shorter and over land.
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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by mrklean »

CID1990 wrote:
mrklean wrote:

I think we had enough Air power to push them back out of Poland.
No we didn't

And Russia's supply line was MUCH shorter and over land.
What aircraft had enough engine power to reach the B-29?
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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by CID1990 »

mrklean wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
No we didn't

And Russia's supply line was MUCH shorter and over land.
What aircraft had enough engine power to reach the B-29?
Since you don't read too well, I'll repeat:

The B-29 didn't have the range to do its job in that scenario- strategic bombing - from any place we could have staged them. The B-29 was useful in going after population centers and manufacturing. The war manufacturing capacity of the USSR was behind the Urals.
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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by Ibanez »

CID1990 wrote:
mrklean wrote:
What aircraft had enough engine power to reach the B-29?
Since you don't read too well, I'll repeat:

The B-29 didn't have the range to do its job in that scenario- strategic bombing - from any place we could have staged them. The B-29 was useful in going after population centers and manufacturing. The war manufacturing capacity of the USSR was behind the Urals.
A range of ~3,000 mi wasn't shabby... but still not enough for round trip bombing raids DEEP into the USSR.
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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by mrklean »

CID1990 wrote:
mrklean wrote:
What aircraft had enough engine power to reach the B-29?
Since you don't read too well, I'll repeat:

The B-29 didn't have the range to do its job in that scenario- strategic bombing - from any place we could have staged them. The B-29 was useful in going after population centers and manufacturing. The war manufacturing capacity of the USSR was behind the Urals.
If you can't hit the factories then hit the men. Tanks don't mean shyt unless they have men to operate them. The B-29 would have laid waste to Moscow. I still think that the P-51 could hold its own with any fighter of that era.
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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by Col Hogan »

mrklean wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Since you don't read too well, I'll repeat:

The B-29 didn't have the range to do its job in that scenario- strategic bombing - from any place we could have staged them. The B-29 was useful in going after population centers and manufacturing. The war manufacturing capacity of the USSR was behind the Urals.
If you can't hit the factories then hit the men. Tanks don't mean shyt unless they have men to operate them. The B-29 would have laid waste to Moscow. I still think that the P-51 could hold its own with any fighter of that era.
Factories don't move overnight...people can be moved in minutes...

Flatten Moscow and all you've done is energize the Russian people...most of their military was not in Moscow...
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Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by Ibanez »

mrklean wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Since you don't read too well, I'll repeat:

The B-29 didn't have the range to do its job in that scenario- strategic bombing - from any place we could have staged them. The B-29 was useful in going after population centers and manufacturing. The war manufacturing capacity of the USSR was behind the Urals.
If you can't hit the factories then hit the men. Tanks don't mean shyt unless they have men to operate them. The B-29 would have laid waste to Moscow. I still think that the P-51 could hold its own with any fighter of that era.
Reduce your enemies ability to wage war and you won't have to kill as many people.
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Re: RE: Re: Charlottesville riots

Post by BDKJMU »

houndawg wrote:
mrklean wrote: The Russian did not want to fight us in 1945. We had the Air Power that the Germans did not. We would have blasted them back to the Stone Age. They had nothing to match our B-29's and P-51's.
They had a lot more boots on the ground. Couldn't have done it without nukes. After the way we used them to do the dying we sort of owed them one. :mrgreen:
The Soviets had 6+ million on the Eastern front in at the beginning of May 1945. I believe we had close to that in Western Europe (including the Italian front).

The Soviets from a population of about 200 million had had something like 34 million serve during the war. About 10 million military deaths, 20 some million total military casualties. They were scrapping bottom of the barrel in early 45'. Out of a population of 130 some million we had about 16 million serve, only had suffered about 400k KIA, about 1.2 million total casualties including captured. This doesn't include the rest of the allies. We had a lot more in the tank than the Soviets in early 45'

Plus there was the Wehrmacht we could have rearmed & used..
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