Trump pulls out of Paris Climate Deal

[Ivytalk]

As it relates to us pulling out of the treaty, there are pros and cons to it:

- We isolate ourselves by stepping away from the table and we lose control of the talking points. Trump fumbled through this move in typical Trump fashion and managed to piss off a great number of people, but that's what Trump does all the time anyway. Europe loves to take stances and issue statements, and now we've given them more ammo to talk away.
- The "treaty" was always much more about style than substance. Targets were flexible and easy to change, so why leave an accord that never really committed us to anything concrete?
- Constitutionally, this was the right move though. This was a treaty, it committed us, albeit very loosely, to dealings with other countries. Stuff like this needs to be approved by the Senate before the US is really considered agreed to the treaty. I know it's messy, I know it's hard, but it's still our Constitution. This was not a shining moment for Obama but rather a calculated political move to avoid the checks and balances of the government.
- Even the worst case models say that without the US participating, the global temperatures by 2100 will only rise 0.3 deg C more than if the US had been fully on board. I can't get too worked up about that since even without being part of this treaty we're going to still be doing things here in the US that will limit and shrink our emissions - fuel cells are still moving forward, fracking has been incredible in lowering our dependency on crude oil, especially on crude from places that don't have the environmental awareness that we have already factored into our operations here, and other renewables are moving forward regardless of what the federal government is doing. We are seeing capitalism work in this case - we are innovating and we are improving. I don't see that changing regardless of what hand holding government leaders do.

No, Perfesser, it was NOT a treaty. It was an executive agreement, so Trump has every right to pull out of it in accordance with its terms. There is NO Constitutional issue here. Maybe it should have been presented to the Senate as a treaty to begin with -- as some folks were urging Trump to do as recently as yesterday. But it was what lawyers call an unenforceable agreement to agree. Now the Iran deal was much closer to an end-run around the Constitution than the Paris accord.

[CID1990]

Yeah... But But
It's an opportunity for somebody (F*ck ANYBODY) in a highly visible position
to take the high road

All Elon had to do was say:
I disagree with the president, and now it's my job to help him understand why we blah blah...
Not: I quit and walk away

We need to show kids and adults too
Even if you disagree you still communicate and work to educate and debate your point

The shitgibbon refuses to read a goddamn intelligence briefing FFS. Frankly I can't blame anybody (F*ck ANYBODY) for saying **** this, not worth my time, I'm out.

What does your A have to do with your B?

Why should Trump's relationship with the IC have anything to do with continuing to try to persuade him on climate?

I guess if personal feelings take a higher priority than drowning polar bears then maybe it isnt that much of a problem?


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[GannonFan]

As it relates to us pulling out of the treaty, there are pros and cons to it:

- We isolate ourselves by stepping away from the table and we lose control of the talking points. Trump fumbled through this move in typical Trump fashion and managed to piss off a great number of people, but that's what Trump does all the time anyway. Europe loves to take stances and issue statements, and now we've given them more ammo to talk away.
- The "treaty" was always much more about style than substance. Targets were flexible and easy to change, so why leave an accord that never really committed us to anything concrete?
- Constitutionally, this was the right move though. This was a treaty, it committed us, albeit very loosely, to dealings with other countries. Stuff like this needs to be approved by the Senate before the US is really considered agreed to the treaty. I know it's messy, I know it's hard, but it's still our Constitution. This was not a shining moment for Obama but rather a calculated political move to avoid the checks and balances of the government.
- Even the worst case models say that without the US participating, the global temperatures by 2100 will only rise 0.3 deg C more than if the US had been fully on board. I can't get too worked up about that since even without being part of this treaty we're going to still be doing things here in the US that will limit and shrink our emissions - fuel cells are still moving forward, fracking has been incredible in lowering our dependency on crude oil, especially on crude from places that don't have the environmental awareness that we have already factored into our operations here, and other renewables are moving forward regardless of what the federal government is doing. We are seeing capitalism work in this case - we are innovating and we are improving. I don't see that changing regardless of what hand holding government leaders do.

No, Perfesser, it was NOT a treaty. It was an executive agreement, so Trump has every right to pull out of it in accordance with its terms. There is NO Constitutional issue here. Maybe it should have been presented to the Senate as a treaty to begin with -- as some folks were urging Trump to do as recently as yesterday. But it was what lawyers call an unenforceable agreement to agree. Now the Iran deal was much closer to an end-run around the Constitution than the Paris accord.

See, I don't know everything - thanks for educating me on executive agreements!

[Grizalltheway]

The shitgibbon refuses to read a goddamn intelligence briefing FFS. Frankly I can't blame anybody (F*ck ANYBODY) for saying **** this, not worth my time, I'm out.

What does your A have to do with your B?

Why should Trump's relationship with the IC have anything to do with continuing to try to persuade him on climate?

I guess if personal feelings take a higher priority than drowning polar bears then maybe it isnt that much of a problem?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Obviously I don't know for certain but I'm guessing the Paris withdrawal was the straw that broke the camel's back, not the sole reason he left.

[CID1990]

What does your A have to do with your B?

Why should Trump's relationship with the IC have anything to do with continuing to try to persuade him on climate?

I guess if personal feelings take a higher priority than drowning polar bears then maybe it isnt that much of a problem?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Obviously I don't know for certain but I'm guessing the Paris withdrawal was the straw that broke the camel's back, not the sole reason he left.

That still would be immaterial. I agree with Chizzang on this one- it's just grandstanding

(There's a lot of that going on in all sectors)

[BDKJMU]

Silly krauts..

[kalm]

Obviously I don't know for certain but I'm guessing the Paris withdrawal was the straw that broke the camel's back, not the sole reason he left.

That still would be immaterial. I agree with Chizzang on this one- it's just grandstanding

(There's a lot of that going on in all sectors)

Of course it's grandstanding but it also might be recognition that Trump is too stupid to work with and a waste of time. This was simply an opportunity to walk and perhaps pursue other options. Like Fiver pointed out...affect change in the private sector.

[CID1990]

That still would be immaterial. I agree with Chizzang on this one- it's just grandstanding

(There's a lot of that going on in all sectors)

Of course it's grandstanding but it also might be recognition that Trump is too stupid to work with and a waste of time. This was simply an opportunity to walk and perhaps pursue other options. Like Fiver pointed out...affect change in the private sector.

Trump has already proven to be malleable in some areas so that doesn't hold water either

Pulling out of Paris was political red meat- it doesn't mean the game is up- especially when you are dependent on government subsidies for your green industry... if Trump can be convinced that there's gold in them hills he might throw cash at it. Jobs are jobs.

[JohnStOnge]

If you're familiar with me you know...or should know...how I feel about the Climate Change issue.

My big thing on his speech has to do with the irony of him making reference to other nations laughing at us when it's pretty much certain that the reason they're laughing at us is because we elected an absurdity like HIM as President. We made complete fools of ourselves. And he's too friggin' dense to realize the irony associated with his statements.

[CID1990]

If you're familiar with me you know...or should know...how I feel about the Climate Change issue.

My big thing on his speech has to do with the irony of him making reference to other nations laughing at us when it's pretty much certain that the reason they're laughing at us is because we elected an absurdity like HIM as President. We made complete fools of ourselves. And he's too friggin' dense to realize the irony associated with his statements.

Well if the economy had been better he wouldnt have been elected

Thanks Obama!


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[CAA Flagship]

If you're familiar with me you know...or should know...how I feel about the Climate Change issue.

My big thing on his speech has to do with the irony of him making reference to other nations laughing at us when it's pretty much certain that the reason they're laughing at us is because we elected an absurdity like HIM as President. We made complete fools of ourselves. And he's too friggin' dense to realize the irony associated with his statements.

Well if the economy had been better he wouldnt have been elected

Thanks Obama!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh no you di-int.

[JohnStOnge]

If you're familiar with me you know...or should know...how I feel about the Climate Change issue.

My big thing on his speech has to do with the irony of him making reference to other nations laughing at us when it's pretty much certain that the reason they're laughing at us is because we elected an absurdity like HIM as President. We made complete fools of ourselves. And he's too friggin' dense to realize the irony associated with his statements.

Well if the economy had been better he wouldnt have been elected

Thanks Obama!


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Except that Obama would have creamed him had he been allowed to run again. It wasn't the economy.

[CAA Flagship]

Well if the economy had been better he wouldnt have been elected

Thanks Obama!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Except that Obama would have creamed him had he been allowed to run again. It wasn't the economy.

[JohnStOnge]

Ok. It's gotten to the point where I have to conclude that you guys realize it wasn't the economy but...as I told one of you in another thread...just want to jerk chains. If you really are so divorced from reality that you think it was the economy it really doesn't matter. Either way we're saddled with a mentally ill President.

It was primarily what the Liberals call "Xenophobia." That's if you're interested in really wanting to know what the biggest factor was.

[SeattleGriz]

Ok. It's gotten to the point where I have to conclude that you guys realize it wasn't the economy but...as I told one of you in another thread...just want to jerk chains. If you really are so divorced from reality that you think it was the economy it really doesn't matter. Either way we're saddled with a mentally ill President.

It was primarily what the Liberals call "Xenophobia." That's if you're interested in really wanting to know what the biggest factor was.

Dude. You're educated and have the ability to go from job to job if needed. Not everyone in the US is so fortunate, and that group is losing jobs left and right.

While I can find a job pretty much anywhere, I did feel the drag on America the last eight years. Had you not noticed how companies were holding their money while Obama was POTUS?

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[Vidav]

Ok. It's gotten to the point where I have to conclude that you guys realize it wasn't the economy but...as I told one of you in another thread...just want to jerk chains. If you really are so divorced from reality that you think it was the economy it really doesn't matter. Either way we're saddled with a mentally ill President.

It was primarily what the Liberals call "Xenophobia." That's if you're interested in really wanting to know what the biggest factor was.

Dude. You're educated and have the ability to go from job to job if needed. Not everyone in the US is so fortunate, and that group is losing jobs left and right.

While I can find a job pretty much anywhere, I did feel the drag on America the last eight years. Had you not noticed how companies were holding their money while Obama was POTUS?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

I didn't notice.

[SDHornet]

Let's see....Europe, libtards, rinos, the media, and wealthy CEO's of global corporations are enraged by this move...


...that can only mean that Trump did something right.





Oh and people thinking China will now be the standard bearer for carbon emissions reductions...

[Chizzang]

Of course it's grandstanding but it also might be recognition that Trump is too stupid to work with and a waste of time. This was simply an opportunity to walk and perhaps pursue other options. Like Fiver pointed out...affect change in the private sector.

Trump has already proven to be malleable in some areas so that doesn't hold water either

Pulling out of Paris was political red meat- it doesn't mean the game is up- especially when you are dependent on government subsidies for your green industry... if Trump can be convinced that there's gold in them hills he might throw cash at it. Jobs are jobs.

This is really the point...
You stay in there and challenge Trump in his own council - it's a lost opportunity to get real work done
all in the name of "making a show of it"

Yeah, Trump is an idiot
Sure, he's ill informed on almost everything
Yes, he has strange notions about common problems

In other words:
He's a dream come true for a guy like Elon Musk

[BDKJMU]

Let's see....Europe, libtards, rinos, the media, and wealthy CEO's of global corporations are enraged by this move...


...that can only mean that Trump did something right.

Yep, and the small businesses community rejoices..
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/b ... 0&referer=

[CID1990]

Hopefully this will be a lesson to Congress and our citizenry:

To Congress- STOP abrogating your duty and responsibility to act as a check on Presidents. Especially the Senate. Treaties are binding, and they must be ratified. Obama did an end run on Congress with both Iran and Paris. The very fact that these were agreements rather than treaties was because they gave away too much, and they will ultimately prove to be ineffective (cue Jelly with articles about people on both sides saying Iran is a good deal)

Stop making these "agreements" when the political will to ink a treaty doesn't exist. It erodes the system of checks and balances, AND they can be dropped.... as we have seen.

[HI54UNI]

[93henfan]

Oooh, oooh, Wall Street Journal!!!!

Conservative bias. Conservative bias!

[Aho Old Guy]

Rightie duhh-flection is always a hoot.

Thanks for abdicating our global leadership, and good luck stopping China, India, the EU, et. al. (the 'Rest of the World') from dominating 'Green' expansion in developing nations. "We're from the US and we're here to help you" will now get you tossed out on yer azz.

But, hey ... you've got your pandering to the lowest, dumbest common denominator down pat. Now, you can cling to coal as you cling to your guns and Bibles ...

[CAA Flagship]

Rightie duhh-flection is always a hoot.

Thanks for abdicating our global leadership, and good luck stopping China, India, the EU, et. al. (the 'Rest of the World') from dominating 'Green' expansion in developing nations. "We're from the US and we're here to help you" will now get you tossed out on yer azz.

But, hey ... you've got your pandering to the lowest, dumbest common denominator down pat. Now, you can cling to coal as you cling to your guns and Bibles ...

Yeah. Our Green technology will want to be re-invented by the developing nations rather than dealing with us directly. It's always easier that way.

[CID1990]

I'm waiting for folks like Old Slow Guy to tell us exactly how Paris was going to reduce the effects of anthropogenic climate change

Because any critical examination of the "gentlemans agreement" shows that it is little more than a political gesture.