John we've been through this before. You continue to focus on the total number or percentage of lies while ignoring the depth of the lies, the damage the lies cause and the lies of omission and obfuscation. You ignore any argument that doesn't fit your narrative. Isn't that bias?JohnStOnge wrote:Sure I do. He lies constantly. His modus operandi is dealing in misinformation. I understand him completely. He's a complete fraud.CAA Flagship wrote:
You still don't understand him, do you?
Here's the Factcheck.org assessment of his statement yesterday morning:
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/07/trump ... s-at-nato/
NATO defense spending was increasing before he got into office and there was no "thing" where NATO countries agreed to ramp things up as he claimed.
And Factcheck.org did back up what it said. NOTHING the guy says can be taken seriously. The question is whether the people who SUPPORT him understand him. If they do and they still support him they should be ashamed of themselves.
Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
- UNI88
- Supporter
- Posts: 20303
- Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
- I am a fan of: UNI
- Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
- AZGrizFan
- Supporter
- Posts: 59959
- Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
- I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
- Location: Just to the right of center
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
I guarantee you Trump doesn’t know 60 associates/business partners that have died or committed suicide under suspicious circumstances....UNI88 wrote:John we've been through this before. You continue to focus on the total number or percentage of lies while ignoring the depth of the lies, the damage the lies cause and the lies of omission and obfuscation. You ignore any argument that doesn't fit your narrative. Isn't that bias?JohnStOnge wrote:
Sure I do. He lies constantly. His modus operandi is dealing in misinformation. I understand him completely. He's a complete fraud.
Here's the Factcheck.org assessment of his statement yesterday morning:
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/07/trump ... s-at-nato/
NATO defense spending was increasing before he got into office and there was no "thing" where NATO countries agreed to ramp things up as he claimed.
And Factcheck.org did back up what it said. NOTHING the guy says can be taken seriously. The question is whether the people who SUPPORT him understand him. If they do and they still support him they should be ashamed of themselves.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
- JohnStOnge
- Egalitarian
- Posts: 20314
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
- I am a fan of: McNeese State
- A.K.A.: JohnStOnge
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
I think I've responded to that argument before, but maybe it wasn't to you in particular. During the campaign I said that some of Trump's lies were indeed pretty significant. Things like claiming he was against attacking Gaddafi in Lybia when he's on video saying he thought we should directly use the US military to do it. To me that's a pretty significant lie because it's an effort to tell people you'd have made a different decision than you would have made.UNI88 wrote:
John we've been through this before. You continue to focus on the total number or percentage of lies while ignoring the depth of the lies, the damage the lies cause and the lies of omission and obfuscation. You ignore any argument that doesn't fit your narrative. Isn't that bias?
I also think he lied routinely to banks during his business career. I think he routinely made agreements knowing he would break them and that's what led to US banks refusing to work with him.
To me the Trump University thing represents some significant lying. He scammed the hell out of people on that one. It wasn't government. But those were significant lies.
I think lying about what NATO countries have been doing with military spending is pretty significant as well. He's trying to create completely false impressions in the minds of his followers.
Here' the thing: He lies constantly. It's the way he operates. There is absolutely no reason to believe he won't lie in a heartbeat about any matter big or small. Like for instance I know a lot of people think people in the Obama Administrations lied when they said they thought the attack was the result of a video. I am among them. But do you think Trump would hesitate to lie under similar circumstances? I hope not.
He's going to lie. He's going to lie about small things. He's going to lie about big things. Yes it's about frequency. If you lie practically every time you open your mouth that's important.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came
- JohnStOnge
- Egalitarian
- Posts: 20314
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 pm
- I am a fan of: McNeese State
- A.K.A.: JohnStOnge
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
You're kidding, right? You're not seriously invoking that nut job conspiracy theory stuff, are you?AZGrizFan wrote:
I guarantee you Trump doesn’t know 60 associates/business partners that have died or committed suicide under suspicious circumstances....
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came
-
- Level5
- Posts: 23427
- Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
- I am a fan of: SIU
- A.K.A.: houndawg
- Location: Egypt
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
AZGrizFan wrote:Jesus. You've gone "full trip". They live longer and have lower infant mortality because they spend their money on social programs while we spend our money defending them.houndawg wrote:
You don't even believe that shit yourself.
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
-
- Level5
- Posts: 23427
- Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
- I am a fan of: SIU
- A.K.A.: houndawg
- Location: Egypt
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
AZGrizFan wrote:I guarantee you Trump doesn’t know 60 associates/business partners that have died or committed suicide under suspicious circumstances....UNI88 wrote:
John we've been through this before. You continue to focus on the total number or percentage of lies while ignoring the depth of the lies, the damage the lies cause and the lies of omission and obfuscation. You ignore any argument that doesn't fit your narrative. Isn't that bias?
look who went "full trip"...
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
-
- Level5
- Posts: 23427
- Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
- I am a fan of: SIU
- A.K.A.: houndawg
- Location: Egypt
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
JohnStOnge wrote:I think I've responded to that argument before, but maybe it wasn't to you in particular. During the campaign I said that some of Trump's lies were indeed pretty significant. Things like claiming he was against attacking Gaddafi in Lybia when he's on video saying he thought we should directly use the US military to do it. To me that's a pretty significant lie because it's an effort to tell people you'd have made a different decision than you would have made.UNI88 wrote:
John we've been through this before. You continue to focus on the total number or percentage of lies while ignoring the depth of the lies, the damage the lies cause and the lies of omission and obfuscation. You ignore any argument that doesn't fit your narrative. Isn't that bias?
I also think he lied routinely to banks during his business career. I think he routinely made agreements knowing he would break them and that's what led to US banks refusing to work with him.
To me the Trump University thing represents some significant lying. He scammed the hell out of people on that one. It wasn't government. But those were significant lies.
I think lying about what NATO countries have been doing with military spending is pretty significant as well. He's trying to create completely false impressions in the minds of his followers.
Here' the thing: He lies constantly. It's the way he operates. There is absolutely no reason to believe he won't lie in a heartbeat about any matter big or small. Like for instance I know a lot of people think people in the Obama Administrations lied when they said they thought the attack was the result of a video. I am among them. But do you think Trump would hesitate to lie under similar circumstances? I hope not.
He's going to lie. He's going to lie about small things. He's going to lie about big things. Yes it's about frequency. If you lie practically every time you open your mouth that's important.
He lies all the time but the thing is: he believes everything he says at the time he says it.
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
- BDKJMU
- Level5
- Posts: 28139
- Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
- I am a fan of: JMU
- A.K.A.: BDKJMU
- Location: Philly Burbs
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
JohnStOnge wrote:I think I've responded to that argument before, but maybe it wasn't to you in particular. During the campaign I said that some of Trump's lies were indeed pretty significant. Things like claiming he was against attacking Gaddafi in Lybia when he's on video saying he thought we should directly use the US military to do it. To me that's a pretty significant lie because it's an effort to tell people you'd have made a different decision than you would have made.UNI88 wrote:
John we've been through this before. You continue to focus on the total number or percentage of lies while ignoring the depth of the lies, the damage the lies cause and the lies of omission and obfuscation. You ignore any argument that doesn't fit your narrative. Isn't that bias?
I also think he lied routinely to banks during his business career. I think he routinely made agreements knowing he would break them and that's what led to US banks refusing to work with him.
To me the Trump University thing represents some significant lying. He scammed the hell out of people on that one. It wasn't government. But those were significant lies.
I think lying about what NATO countries have been doing with military spending is pretty significant as well. He's trying to create completely false impressions in the minds of his followers.
Here' the thing: He lies constantly. It's the way he operates. There is absolutely no reason to believe he won't lie in a heartbeat about any matter big or small. Like for instance I know a lot of people think people in the Obama Administrations lied when they said they thought the attack was the result of a video. I am among them. But do you think Trump would hesitate to lie under similar circumstances? I hope not.
He's going to lie. He's going to lie about small things. He's going to lie about big things. Yes it's about frequency. If you lie practically every time you open your mouth that's important.
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions...But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
- AZGrizFan
- Supporter
- Posts: 59959
- Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
- I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
- Location: Just to the right of center
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
Following Jon’s lead.houndawg wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:
I guarantee you Trump doesn’t know 60 associates/business partners that have died or committed suicide under suspicious circumstances....
look who went "full trip"...
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
- AZGrizFan
- Supporter
- Posts: 59959
- Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
- I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
- Location: Just to the right of center
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
It’s 100% the truth, pal.houndawg wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:
Jesus. You've gone "full trip". They live longer and have lower infant mortality because they spend their money on social programs while we spend our money defending them.
You don't even believe that shit yourself.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
-
- Supporter
- Posts: 59604
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
- I am a fan of: Eastern
- A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
- Location: Northern Palouse
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
And both are choices.AZGrizFan wrote:It’s 100% the truth, pal.houndawg wrote:
You don't even believe that shit yourself.
- AZGrizFan
- Supporter
- Posts: 59959
- Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
- I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
- Location: Just to the right of center
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
Oh, agreed 100%. But many of those choices were made dozens and dozens of years ago...and when you try to get them OFF that crack (like Trump purports to be doing), it can be a painful, difficult transition.kalm wrote:And both are choices.AZGrizFan wrote:
It’s 100% the truth, pal.
One that I think, ultimately, will never be made.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
-
- Supporter
- Posts: 59604
- Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
- I am a fan of: Eastern
- A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
- Location: Northern Palouse
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
AZGrizFan wrote:Oh, agreed 100%. But many of those choices were made dozens and dozens of years ago...and when you try to get them OFF that crack (like Trump purports to be doing), it can be a painful, difficult transition.kalm wrote:
And both are choices.
One that I think, ultimately, will never be made.
- UNI88
- Supporter
- Posts: 20303
- Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
- I am a fan of: UNI
- Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River
Re: RE: Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
I don't disagree that Trump is a bufoon and a con artist. Where I disagree is your argument that Trump is/was a significantly worse liar or candidate than Hildamort. They were neck and neck with each other as seriously flawed candidates and Hildamort's lies and omissions were much more insidious IMO. Trump's lies are embarrassingly brazen but easily spotted.JohnStOnge wrote:I think I've responded to that argument before, but maybe it wasn't to you in particular. During the campaign I said that some of Trump's lies were indeed pretty significant. Things like claiming he was against attacking Gaddafi in Lybia when he's on video saying he thought we should directly use the US military to do it. To me that's a pretty significant lie because it's an effort to tell people you'd have made a different decision than you would have made.UNI88 wrote:
John we've been through this before. You continue to focus on the total number or percentage of lies while ignoring the depth of the lies, the damage the lies cause and the lies of omission and obfuscation. You ignore any argument that doesn't fit your narrative. Isn't that bias?
I also think he lied routinely to banks during his business career. I think he routinely made agreements knowing he would break them and that's what led to US banks refusing to work with him.
To me the Trump University thing represents some significant lying. He scammed the hell out of people on that one. It wasn't government. But those were significant lies.
I think lying about what NATO countries have been doing with military spending is pretty significant as well. He's trying to create completely false impressions in the minds of his followers.
Here' the thing: He lies constantly. It's the way he operates. There is absolutely no reason to believe he won't lie in a heartbeat about any matter big or small. Like for instance I know a lot of people think people in the Obama Administrations lied when they said they thought the attack was the result of a video. I am among them. But do you think Trump would hesitate to lie under similar circumstances? I hope not.
He's going to lie. He's going to lie about small things. He's going to lie about big things. Yes it's about frequency. If you lie practically every time you open your mouth that's important.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
-
- Level5
- Posts: 23427
- Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
- I am a fan of: SIU
- A.K.A.: houndawg
- Location: Egypt
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
I certainly hope not; where would my grandkids go to college?kalm wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:
Oh, agreed 100%. But many of those choices were made dozens and dozens of years ago...and when you try to get them OFF that crack (like Trump purports to be doing), it can be a painful, difficult transition.
One that I think, ultimately, will never be made.
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
-
- Level5
- Posts: 23427
- Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
- I am a fan of: SIU
- A.K.A.: houndawg
- Location: Egypt
Re: RE: Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
Maybe not but he is still a buffoon and a con artist and a traitor and he doesn't even try to make a pretense of attempting to govern the nation or do anything else that would be taking time out from his looting of the public treasury.UNI88 wrote:I don't disagree that Trump is a bufoon and a con artist. Where I disagree is your argument that Trump is/was a significantly worse liar or candidate than Hildamort. They were neck and neck with each other as seriously flawed candidates and Hildamort's lies and omissions were much more insidious IMO. Trump's lies are embarrassingly brazen but easily spotted.JohnStOnge wrote:
I think I've responded to that argument before, but maybe it wasn't to you in particular. During the campaign I said that some of Trump's lies were indeed pretty significant. Things like claiming he was against attacking Gaddafi in Lybia when he's on video saying he thought we should directly use the US military to do it. To me that's a pretty significant lie because it's an effort to tell people you'd have made a different decision than you would have made.
I also think he lied routinely to banks during his business career. I think he routinely made agreements knowing he would break them and that's what led to US banks refusing to work with him.
To me the Trump University thing represents some significant lying. He scammed the hell out of people on that one. It wasn't government. But those were significant lies.
I think lying about what NATO countries have been doing with military spending is pretty significant as well. He's trying to create completely false impressions in the minds of his followers.
Here' the thing: He lies constantly. It's the way he operates. There is absolutely no reason to believe he won't lie in a heartbeat about any matter big or small. Like for instance I know a lot of people think people in the Obama Administrations lied when they said they thought the attack was the result of a video. I am among them. But do you think Trump would hesitate to lie under similar circumstances? I hope not.
He's going to lie. He's going to lie about small things. He's going to lie about big things. Yes it's about frequency. If you lie practically every time you open your mouth that's important.
The best way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of opinion but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky
- UNI88
- Supporter
- Posts: 20303
- Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
- I am a fan of: UNI
- Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River
Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
And Clinton would have been different?houndawg wrote:Maybe not but he is still a buffoon and a con artist and a traitor and he doesn't even try to make a pretense of attempting to govern the nation or do anything else that would be taking time out from his looting of the public treasury.UNI88 wrote:
I don't disagree that Trump is a bufoon and a con artist. Where I disagree is your argument that Trump is/was a significantly worse liar or candidate than Hildamort. They were neck and neck with each other as seriously flawed candidates and Hildamort's lies and omissions were much more insidious IMO. Trump's lies are embarrassingly brazen but easily spotted.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
You have to give credit where it's due. I've never seen a president who was capable of pissing off Australia and Canada - that takes a special talent.
- AZGrizFan
- Supporter
- Posts: 59959
- Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm
- I am a fan of: Sexual Chocolate
- Location: Just to the right of center
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
ASUG8 wrote:You have to give credit where it's due. I've never seen a president who was capable of pissing off Australia and Canada - that takes a special talent.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
- CID1990
- Level5
- Posts: 25460
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:40 am
- I am a fan of: Pie
- A.K.A.: CID 1990
- Location: กรุงเทพมหานคร
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
I found this article obliquely while I was reading about ME policy and found it to be a really good read. Among several takeaways, I found this part especially interesting, given that President Obama referred to NATO and other countries in strategic relationships with the US as "free riders":
"If Obama ever questioned whether America really is the world’s one indispensable nation, he no longer does so. But he is the rare president who seems at times to resent indispensability, rather than embrace it. “Free riders aggravate me,” he told me. Recently, Obama warned that Great Britain would no longer be able to claim a “special relationship” with the United States if it did not commit to spending at least 2 percent of its GDP on defense. “You have to pay your fair share,” Obama told David Cameron, who subsequently met the 2 percent threshold."
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ne/471525/
"If Obama ever questioned whether America really is the world’s one indispensable nation, he no longer does so. But he is the rare president who seems at times to resent indispensability, rather than embrace it. “Free riders aggravate me,” he told me. Recently, Obama warned that Great Britain would no longer be able to claim a “special relationship” with the United States if it did not commit to spending at least 2 percent of its GDP on defense. “You have to pay your fair share,” Obama told David Cameron, who subsequently met the 2 percent threshold."
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ne/471525/
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
- UNI88
- Supporter
- Posts: 20303
- Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
- I am a fan of: UNI
- Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River
Re: RE: Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
Kind of like "but Bush" and CID's just pointing out the hypocrisy of the Orange Man bad crowd.mainejeff wrote:Is Obama becoming President again?
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
- Skjellyfetti
- Anal
- Posts: 14422
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:56 pm
- I am a fan of: Appalachian
Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
What's hypocritical?
Yeah, the 2% commitment was initiated by Obama. Most people think it was a part of NATO since it's inception. The countries agreed to work toward spending 2% of their GDP on defense by 2024.
I didn't know he called them "free riders"... But, who gives a shit? Sounds like he did it privately and he handled getting the 2% commitment diplomatically.
Yeah, the 2% commitment was initiated by Obama. Most people think it was a part of NATO since it's inception. The countries agreed to work toward spending 2% of their GDP on defense by 2024.
I didn't know he called them "free riders"... But, who gives a shit? Sounds like he did it privately and he handled getting the 2% commitment diplomatically.
"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
- Richard Burr, (R-NC)
- Richard Burr, (R-NC)
- mainejeff
- Level4
- Posts: 5385
- Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:43 am
- I am a fan of: Maine
- A.K.A.: mainejeff
Re: RE: Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
He IS a bad man....a very bad man. And I can't believe the people giving him a free pass in comparison to other Presidents. I guess it's just the anti-government crowd that would rather see a free-for-all anarchy type set-up in this country. Let's see.....anti-government, pro-gun, pro-authoritarian....yeah, I think most of us see where this is going and we WILL stop it.UNI88 wrote:Kind of like "but Bush" and CID's just pointing out the hypocrisy of the Orange Man bad crowd.mainejeff wrote:Is Obama becoming President again?
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Go Black Bears!
- UNI88
- Supporter
- Posts: 20303
- Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
- I am a fan of: UNI
- Location: the foggy, woggy banks Of the Limpopo River
Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO
Yes he is a bad man but that doesn't mean that everything he proposes or does is bad which the Donks don't seem to understand (and the Conks didn't seem to understand with Obama).mainejeff wrote:He IS a bad man....a very bad man. And I can't believe the people giving him a free pass in comparison to other Presidents. I guess it's just the anti-government crowd that would rather see a free-for-all anarchy type set-up in this country. Let's see.....anti-government, pro-gun, pro-authoritarian....yeah, I think most of us see where this is going and we WILL stop it.UNI88 wrote:Kind of like "but Bush" and CID's just pointing out the hypocrisy of the Orange Man bad crowd.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
The anarchy argument is even more BS then the Soviet socialist argument that I like to use.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm