Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

[CID1990]

How about next time the GOP not run a buffoon like Trump and the Dem's not let perhaps the most corrupt politician of our time take control of the party machinery and put herself forward as the nominee?

Uh. Sign me up. 2016 was the most depressing US election I hope I ever witness.

Russia didn't elect Trump, we did, all by ourselves, because government was/is broken and people knowingly looked the other way when Hillary and other politicians (and their partisan lapdogs) worried more about power than about doing good.

I don't disagree here. There isn't any evidence that Russia's influence led to Trump's victory and if it wasn't for it... Hillary would have won. That would be impossible to prove and I've never claimed as much. Neither did Sasse.

We've been questioning that for the past two decades at least. Stop trying to prop up some bogeyman as a serious issue - it's a Scare, it's a way to deflect fixing what's really wrong with our government.

Sorry, but a foreign government hacking both major political parties is a serious issue. No, we shouldn't be surprised that Russia did it. It's not earth shattering. But, is it a radical idea to acknowledge that it's a problem and try to figure out how to make sure it doesn't continue to happen?

That includes finding out if there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the hacking and troll armies.

It seems some in the campaign were aware of the hacks before the public or law enforcement. Why?

At least two people in the campaign were in contact with either Guccifer 2.0 or Wikileaks during the campaign. Why? Is it crazy to want it investigated?

Don Jr., Manafort, and Kushner went to a meeting with a Russian lawyer they believed to be sent from the Kremlin with damaging information on Hillary. They say nothing happened. Maybe you take their 3rd iteration of the story at face value. But, is it crazy to want to investigate that?

The Trump campaign manager is charged laundering Russian money. Did Russia use this as kompromat on him?


I don't blame Russia for doing what they did. They're looking out for their best interests and they're pretty good at it (at least the best interests of the ruling class). But, we should try to fix it. It's not a radical idea and it's certainly not a Red Scare.

As I've said before, if this is normalized - we'll just enter a new era of American politics where each party aligns with intelligence services of the countries that want them elected. If the 2020 election turns into the Five Eyes backing Oprah vs. GRU backing Trump... it will be even more depressing than 2016.

I see we have now moved to "it would be crazy not to investigate".

Somehow it just doesn't seem quite as strident as before... I wonder why?

The one good thing that will have come out of all of this once it is all said and done is that we have at least received a tacit grand admission from the Left that yes, in fact, Russia is our greatest geopolitical threat at this time.

[Skjellyfetti]

Really?

You've been arguing since May that Mueller isn't even investigating it.

You in June:

Here's something you can mark down:

Mueller isn't looking at the Trump campaign for collusion. He's already ruled it out.

Me in June:

Still can't even be convinced that it's a valid subject worthy of investigation.

It's still some kind of narrative that I and the media created. Or just a Red Scare as Gannon likes to say.

Are Mueller, Rosenstein, and Richard Burr all tin foil hat wearing, CNN addicted, Democrat shills?

^^ That's pretty much the same conversation we've had everytime I post a story and bump this thread.

I've never claimed coordination occurred or can be proven. I've said repeatedly that it is simply worthy of thorough investigation. I've certainly never been so strident as to say "Here's something you can mark down: Trump colluded. Mueller has the proof!"

Depending on the month, I've spent most of this thread arguing with people saying:

(i) it's a "nothingburger"
(ii) the real story is Obama wiretapping Trump
(iii) the real story is unmasking
(iv) the real story is Uranium One
(v) the real story is Fusion GPS
(vi) *whatever the next headfake is*

[CID1990]

Really?

You've been arguing since May that Mueller isn't even investigating it.

Here's something you can mark down:

Mueller isn't looking at the Trump campaign for collusion. He's already ruled it out.

I've never claimed coordination occurred or can be proven. I've said repeatedly that it is simply worthy of thorough investigation. I've certainly never been so strident as to say "Here's something you can mark down: Trump colluded. Mueller has the proof!"

Depending on the month, I've spent most of this thread arguing with people saying:

(i) it's a "nothingburger"
(ii) the real story is Obama wiretapping Trump
(iii) the real story is unmasking
(iv) the real story is Uranium One
(v) the real story is Fusion GPS
(vi) *whatever the next headfake is*

Why do you keep reminding me of things that I still stand by? You just checkin?

Mueller isn't looking at collusion. They are making a show of it, and after all is said and done, they will trot out a few unrelated indictments against Manafort and maybe a couple others, and Mueller will say that there is no evidence of collusion... something they already know, and have known since the start.

Keep trying to play the disinterest card. I don't recall you making hay of Obama telling Romney the Russians weren't a problem until your own ox got gored.

[SDHornet]

Really?

You've been arguing since May that Mueller isn't even investigating it.


I've never claimed coordination occurred or can be proven. I've said repeatedly that it is simply worthy of thorough investigation. I've certainly never been so strident as to say "Here's something you can mark down: Trump colluded. Mueller has the proof!"

Depending on the month, I've spent most of this thread arguing with people saying:

(i) it's a "nothingburger"
(ii) the real story is Obama wiretapping Trump
(iii) the real story is unmasking
(iv) the real story is Uranium One
(v) the real story is Fusion GPS
(vi) *whatever the next headfake is*

Why do you keep reminding me of things that I still stand by? You just checkin?

Mueller isn't looking at collusion. They are making a show of it, and after all is said and done, they will trot out a few unrelated indictments against Manafort and maybe a couple others, and Mueller will say that there is no evidence of collusion... something they already know, and have known since the start.

Keep trying to play the disinterest card. I don't recall you making hay of Obama telling Romney the Russians weren't a problem until your own ox got gored.

I find great hilarity that the dude that started, parrots MSM talking points/artilces, and has the bulk of the posts in this nearly 70 page abortion of a thread is claiming he is just here to refute "headfake" narratives related to Trump-Russia collusion...

...which by the way we are still waiting on evidence for.

[SDHornet]

Oh, and there's this gem today:

A review of a classified document outlining what is described as extensive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act abuse was made available to all House members Thursday and the revelations could lead to the removal of senior officials in the FBI and Department of Justice, several sources with knowledge of the document stated. These sources say the report is “explosive,” stating they would not be surprised if it leads to the end of Robert Mueller’s Special Counsel investigation into President Trump and his associates.

Let's see how long before someone leaks the document to the Wiki...

[CID1990]

Oh, and there's this gem today:

A review of a classified document outlining what is described as extensive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act abuse was made available to all House members Thursday and the revelations could lead to the removal of senior officials in the FBI and Department of Justice, several sources with knowledge of the document stated. These sources say the report is “explosive,” stating they would not be surprised if it leads to the end of Robert Mueller’s Special Counsel investigation into President Trump and his associates.

Let's see how long before someone leaks the document to the Wiki...

When it came out I was going to ask Jelly why he didn't post it.... but I already knew the answer

BTW it might leak, but I'll bet you Congress will move to declassify it anyway


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skjellyfetti]

If it is an actual damning document that all members of Congress have access to - it will be leaked. There is no way something like that isn't leaked in Washington. Hell, Trump could declassify it today. And, if as explosive as it sounds and would clear him and end the Mueller investigation - he'd be justified.

Sounds a lot like the next headfake I was anticipating. But, we'll see!

[houndawg]

How about next time the GOP not run a buffoon like Trump and the Dem's not let perhaps the most corrupt politician of our time take control of the party machinery and put herself forward as the nominee?

Uh. Sign me up. 2016 was the most depressing US election I hope I ever witness.

Russia didn't elect Trump, we did, all by ourselves, because government was/is broken and people knowingly looked the other way when Hillary and other politicians (and their partisan lapdogs) worried more about power than about doing good.

I don't disagree here. There isn't any evidence that Russia's influence led to Trump's victory and if it wasn't for it... Hillary would have won. That would be impossible to prove and I've never claimed as much. Neither did Sasse.

We've been questioning that for the past two decades at least. Stop trying to prop up some bogeyman as a serious issue - it's a Scare, it's a way to deflect fixing what's really wrong with our government.

Sorry, but a foreign government hacking both major political parties is a serious issue. No, we shouldn't be surprised that Russia did it. It's not earth shattering. But, is it a radical idea to acknowledge that it's a problem and try to figure out how to make sure it doesn't continue to happen?

That includes finding out if there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the hacking and troll armies.

It seems some in the campaign were aware of the hacks before the public or law enforcement. Why?

At least two people in the campaign were in contact with either Guccifer 2.0 or Wikileaks during the campaign. Why? Is it crazy to want it investigated?

Don Jr., Manafort, and Kushner went to a meeting with a Russian lawyer they believed to be sent from the Kremlin with damaging information on Hillary. They say nothing happened. Maybe you take their 3rd iteration of the story at face value. But, is it crazy to want to investigate that?

The Trump campaign manager is charged laundering Russian money. Did Russia use this as kompromat on him?


I don't blame Russia for doing what they did. They're looking out for their best interests and they're pretty good at it (at least the best interests of the ruling class). But, we should try to fix it. It's not a radical idea and it's certainly not a Red Scare.

As I've said before, if this is normalized - we'll just enter a new era of American politics where each party aligns with intelligence services of the countries that want them elected. If the 2020 election turns into the Five Eyes backing Oprah vs. GRU backing Trump... it will be even more depressing than 2016.

That's mostly about pointing the finger away from the DNC who lost the single most unloseable national election we've ever had. Nor does it matter a whit - people have been interfering in elections since the first one was held. Stay focused on the money laundering - Al Capone went down for tax evasion. They probably have US Marshalls in the weight room right now trying to build up enough strength to frog-march a hippopotamus ......

[CAA Flagship]

Oh, and there's this gem today:



Let's see how long before someone leaks the document to the Wiki...

When it came out I was going to ask Jelly why he didn't post it.... but I already knew the answer

BTW it might leak, but I'll bet you Congress will move to declassify it anyway


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And nothing will happen.

I'm not sure what is worse; unlawful acts of government officials or the fact that justice against them is rarely, if ever, served.

[CID1990]

If it is an actual damning document that all members of Congress have access to - it will be leaked. There is no way something like that isn't leaked in Washington. Hell, Trump could declassify it today. And, if as explosive as it sounds and would clear him and end the Mueller investigation - he'd be justified.

Sounds a lot like the next headfake I was anticipating. But, we'll see!

Hey look

Junior's got a new word.. and he's whippin its ass

FYI- "headfakes" are only necessary when you NEED to distract from something


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[houndawg]

Uh. Sign me up. 2016 was the most depressing US election I hope I ever witness.



I don't disagree here. There isn't any evidence that Russia's influence led to Trump's victory and if it wasn't for it... Hillary would have won. That would be impossible to prove and I've never claimed as much. Neither did Sasse.



Sorry, but a foreign government hacking both major political parties is a serious issue. No, we shouldn't be surprised that Russia did it. It's not earth shattering. But, is it a radical idea to acknowledge that it's a problem and try to figure out how to make sure it doesn't continue to happen?

That includes finding out if there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the hacking and troll armies.

It seems some in the campaign were aware of the hacks before the public or law enforcement. Why?

At least two people in the campaign were in contact with either Guccifer 2.0 or Wikileaks during the campaign. Why? Is it crazy to want it investigated?

Don Jr., Manafort, and Kushner went to a meeting with a Russian lawyer they believed to be sent from the Kremlin with damaging information on Hillary. They say nothing happened. Maybe you take their 3rd iteration of the story at face value. But, is it crazy to want to investigate that?

The Trump campaign manager is charged laundering Russian money. Did Russia use this as kompromat on him?


I don't blame Russia for doing what they did. They're looking out for their best interests and they're pretty good at it (at least the best interests of the ruling class). But, we should try to fix it. It's not a radical idea and it's certainly not a Red Scare.

As I've said before, if this is normalized - we'll just enter a new era of American politics where each party aligns with intelligence services of the countries that want them elected. If the 2020 election turns into the Five Eyes backing Oprah vs. GRU backing Trump... it will be even more depressing than 2016.

I see we have now moved to "it would be crazy not to investigate".

Somehow it just doesn't seem quite as strident as before... I wonder why?

The one good thing that will have come out of all of this once it is all said and done is that we have at least received a tacit grand admission from the Left that yes, in fact, Russia is our greatest geopolitical threat at this time.

It isn't benghazi?

[Baldy]

When it came out I was going to ask Jelly why he didn't post it.... but I already knew the answer

BTW it might leak, but I'll bet you Congress will move to declassify it anyway


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And nothing will happen.

I'm not sure what is worse; unlawful acts of government officials or the fact that justice against them is rarely, if ever, served.

Conventional wisdom has it that there is documented and verified proof of collusion between the upper echelons (Obama appointees) of the FBI and the DOJ with the Clinton campaign to destroy the Trump candidacy and his family.

Right now, I'm like...

However, please wake me up when they're swinging from the lampposts.

[Skjellyfetti]

Have y'all heard "The Storm" theory? Seems to be the successor to PizzaGate.

http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/12/qano ... ained.html

[Ivytalk]

Why do you keep reminding me of things that I still stand by? You just checkin?

Mueller isn't looking at collusion. They are making a show of it, and after all is said and done, they will trot out a few unrelated indictments against Manafort and maybe a couple others, and Mueller will say that there is no evidence of collusion... something they already know, and have known since the start.

Keep trying to play the disinterest card. I don't recall you making hay of Obama telling Romney the Russians weren't a problem until your own ox got gored.

I find great hilarity that the dude that started, parrots MSM talking points/artilces, and has the bulk of the posts in this nearly 70 page abortion of a thread is claiming he is just here to refute "headfake" narratives related to Trump-Russia collusion...

...which by the way we are still waiting on evidence for.

This thread is past its third trimester, so you can’t abort it.

[Chizzang]

I find great hilarity that the dude that started, parrots MSM talking points/artilces, and has the bulk of the posts in this nearly 70 page abortion of a thread is claiming he is just here to refute "headfake" narratives related to Trump-Russia collusion...

...which by the way we are still waiting on evidence for.

This thread is past its third trimester, so you can’t abort it.

I've got news for you Ivy
This thread has been an abortion for months now

[CID1990]

Have y'all heard "The Storm" theory? Seems to be the successor to PizzaGate.

http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/12/qano ... ained.html

No

But that’s a pretty “out there” story for such a casual, peripheral observer of Trump’s problems with Russia

[kalm]

Have y'all heard "The Storm" theory? Seems to be the successor to PizzaGate.

http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/12/qano ... ained.html

No

But that’s a pretty “out there” story for such a casual, peripheral observer of Trump’s problems with Russia

You’re way behind. Ben Shapiro and Hannity are all over this shit according to Facebook.

[Skjellyfetti]

But that’s a pretty “out there” story for such a casual, peripheral observer of Trump’s problems with Russia

When did I say I was a casual observer of this?

I've said before it's like House of Cards with Michael Scott as Francis Underwood. It's a great story and I do follow it avidly.

[SDHornet]

When it came out I was going to ask Jelly why he didn't post it.... but I already knew the answer

BTW it might leak, but I'll bet you Congress will move to declassify it anyway


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And nothing will happen.

I'm not sure what is worse; unlawful acts of government officials or the fact that justice against them is rarely, if ever, served.

Depends on what is documented in the memo. If it is full on politicizing of the DOJ/FBI/CIA to wiretap an opposing campaign then I think at a minimum anyone that is named in this thing (and maybe others) will "resign"...they will have to if it is as bad as it is looking based on some of the stuff already out there.

Best case is these people are fired and prosecuted and jailed. Doubt it goes that far but I'll be fine with a purging of those in the agencies listed above (and any others) that actively engaged and encouraged politicizing their investigations/work etc.

Dare is say that if what is being alluded to is actually what the memo documents that...wait for it...it would be like what happens in places like Russia?

[Skjellyfetti]

Oh, and there's this gem today:

A review of a classified document outlining what is described as extensive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act abuse was made available to all House members Thursday and the revelations could lead to the removal of senior officials in the FBI and Department of Justice, several sources with knowledge of the document stated. These sources say the report is “explosive,” stating they would not be surprised if it leads to the end of Robert Mueller’s Special Counsel investigation into President Trump and his associates.

Let's see how long before someone leaks the document to the Wiki...

Hmm. Why is this 404d now?

Seems it is a memo put together by Nunes alone. Meh.

[houndawg]

Uh. Sign me up. 2016 was the most depressing US election I hope I ever witness.



I don't disagree here. There isn't any evidence that Russia's influence led to Trump's victory and if it wasn't for it... Hillary would have won. That would be impossible to prove and I've never claimed as much. Neither did Sasse.



Sorry, but a foreign government hacking both major political parties is a serious issue. No, we shouldn't be surprised that Russia did it. It's not earth shattering. But, is it a radical idea to acknowledge that it's a problem and try to figure out how to make sure it doesn't continue to happen?

That includes finding out if there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the hacking and troll armies.

It seems some in the campaign were aware of the hacks before the public or law enforcement. Why?

At least two people in the campaign were in contact with either Guccifer 2.0 or Wikileaks during the campaign. Why? Is it crazy to want it investigated?

Don Jr., Manafort, and Kushner went to a meeting with a Russian lawyer they believed to be sent from the Kremlin with damaging information on Hillary. They say nothing happened. Maybe you take their 3rd iteration of the story at face value. But, is it crazy to want to investigate that?

The Trump campaign manager is charged laundering Russian money. Did Russia use this as kompromat on him?


I don't blame Russia for doing what they did. They're looking out for their best interests and they're pretty good at it (at least the best interests of the ruling class). But, we should try to fix it. It's not a radical idea and it's certainly not a Red Scare.

As I've said before, if this is normalized - we'll just enter a new era of American politics where each party aligns with intelligence services of the countries that want them elected. If the 2020 election turns into the Five Eyes backing Oprah vs. GRU backing Trump... it will be even more depressing than 2016.

I see we have now moved to "it would be crazy not to investigate".

Somehow it just doesn't seem quite as strident as before... I wonder why?

The one good thing that will have come out of all of this once it is all said and done is that we have at least received a tacit grand admission from the Left that yes, in fact, Russia is our greatest geopolitical threat at this time.

That all changes when the new Chinese Navy goes global. They already made the deal: Russia gets Alaska back and the Chinese get to develop the Heartland for exporting food to China.

[houndawg]

Have y'all heard "The Storm" theory? Seems to be the successor to PizzaGate.

http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/12/qano ... ained.html

Maybe he meant the "Stormy" theory...

[Skjellyfetti]

The FBI has not been permitted to see the memo Rep. Devin Nunes and his staff wrote about alleged abuses by the intelligence community, The Daily Beast has learned.

"The FBI has requested to receive a copy of the memo in order to evaluate the information and take appropriate steps if necessary. To date, the request has been declined,” said Andrew Ames, a spokesperson for the FBI.

Reached for comment, Nunes’ spokesperson Jack Langer said, "The Daily Beast has become America's foremost publication for regurgitating the Democrats' talking points."

Nunes, who heads the powerful House intelligence community, put together the four-page memo based on intelligence the FBI showed him and a few of his staff, as well as Rep. Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the committee. More than 150 members of the House have seen Nunes’ memo. Scores are calling for its release, while Democrats say it is “a misleading set of talking points attacking the FBI.”

The fact that Republicans refuse to show the memo to FBI, which characterizes the intelligence they shared with Nunes, has Democrats concerned. One aide told The Daily Beast it means Nunes’ efforts are just politics.

“If this is about FBI abuses, why wouldn’t they share it with the Trump-appointed director who wasn't at the bureau when the abuses supposedly occurred?” the aide said. “If this is about cleaning up the FBI like they claim, wouldn't they want Wray as an ally?”

That aide added that making the memo public without letting the FBI see it first could exacerbate tensions between the Hill and the bureau, and that it could make it even less cooperative with Congressional requests and subpoenas.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-fbi-h ... itter_page

[Baldy]

The FBI has not been permitted to see the memo Rep. Devin Nunes and his staff wrote about alleged abuses by the intelligence community, The Daily Beast has learned.

"The FBI has requested to receive a copy of the memo in order to evaluate the information and take appropriate steps if necessary. To date, the request has been declined,” said Andrew Ames, a spokesperson for the FBI.

Reached for comment, Nunes’ spokesperson Jack Langer said, "The Daily Beast has become America's foremost publication for regurgitating the Democrats' talking points."

Nunes, who heads the powerful House intelligence community, put together the four-page memo based on intelligence the FBI showed him and a few of his staff, as well as Rep. Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the committee. More than 150 members of the House have seen Nunes’ memo. Scores are calling for its release, while Democrats say it is “a misleading set of talking points attacking the FBI.”

The fact that Republicans refuse to show the memo to FBI, which characterizes the intelligence they shared with Nunes, has Democrats concerned. One aide told The Daily Beast it means Nunes’ efforts are just politics.

“If this is about FBI abuses, why wouldn’t they share it with the Trump-appointed director who wasn't at the bureau when the abuses supposedly occurred?” the aide said. “If this is about cleaning up the FBI like they claim, wouldn't they want Wray as an ally?”

That aide added that making the memo public without letting the FBI see it first could exacerbate tensions between the Hill and the bureau, and that it could make it even less cooperative with Congressional requests and subpoenas.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-fbi-h ... itter_page

This memo supposedly exposes abuses at the highest levels of the FBI, against people who are still in their positions at the FBI, but the FBI wants to view the memo before the American public?

If it's only a "misleading set of talking points attacking the FBI", as the Donks say, what's the big deal? Wouldn't it be better for them to just let the Conks build this thing up and fall flat on their faces when the memo is finally released?

[Skjellyfetti]

Is Christopher Wray an Obamabot Deep Stater? Why not give your damaging info to Wray and let him cleanse the FBI?

If it has the potential to end the Mueller investigation - why not give it to Rosenstein? If Mueller's team has acted unethically or broken the law, Rosenstein can shut them down Monday morning.

If it's legitimately worthy of shutting down Mueller's investigation - they're idiots for not already releasing it or passing it off to those that can shut it down and/or ferret out the Deep Staters.