I see we have now moved to "it would be crazy not to investigate".Skjellyfetti wrote:Uh. Sign me up. 2016 was the most depressing US election I hope I ever witness.GannonFan wrote: How about next time the GOP not run a buffoon like Trump and the Dem's not let perhaps the most corrupt politician of our time take control of the party machinery and put herself forward as the nominee?
I don't disagree here. There isn't any evidence that Russia's influence led to Trump's victory and if it wasn't for it... Hillary would have won. That would be impossible to prove and I've never claimed as much. Neither did Sasse.GannonFan wrote: Russia didn't elect Trump, we did, all by ourselves, because government was/is broken and people knowingly looked the other way when Hillary and other politicians (and their partisan lapdogs) worried more about power than about doing good.
Sorry, but a foreign government hacking both major political parties is a serious issue. No, we shouldn't be surprised that Russia did it. It's not earth shattering. But, is it a radical idea to acknowledge that it's a problem and try to figure out how to make sure it doesn't continue to happen?GannonFan wrote:We've been questioning that for the past two decades at least. Stop trying to prop up some bogeyman as a serious issue - it's a Scare, it's a way to deflect fixing what's really wrong with our government.
That includes finding out if there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the hacking and troll armies.
It seems some in the campaign were aware of the hacks before the public or law enforcement. Why?
At least two people in the campaign were in contact with either Guccifer 2.0 or Wikileaks during the campaign. Why? Is it crazy to want it investigated?
Don Jr., Manafort, and Kushner went to a meeting with a Russian lawyer they believed to be sent from the Kremlin with damaging information on Hillary. They say nothing happened. Maybe you take their 3rd iteration of the story at face value. But, is it crazy to want to investigate that?
The Trump campaign manager is charged laundering Russian money. Did Russia use this as kompromat on him?
I don't blame Russia for doing what they did. They're looking out for their best interests and they're pretty good at it (at least the best interests of the ruling class). But, we should try to fix it. It's not a radical idea and it's certainly not a Red Scare.
As I've said before, if this is normalized - we'll just enter a new era of American politics where each party aligns with intelligence services of the countries that want them elected. If the 2020 election turns into the Five Eyes backing Oprah vs. GRU backing Trump... it will be even more depressing than 2016.
Somehow it just doesn't seem quite as strident as before... I wonder why?
The one good thing that will have come out of all of this once it is all said and done is that we have at least received a tacit grand admission from the Left that yes, in fact, Russia is our greatest geopolitical threat at this time.