I’m so gosh darn proud of you, 89JMU, and your developing sense of humor I actually get a little choked up. You’ve come a long way, baby!BDKJMU wrote:I’ve never heard of him. Since he’s from MT, I assume he’s white. Did Grace play for Montana or Montana St? Did he have big receiving #s in the pass happy, defenseless Big Sky? Did he have big games vs EWU? Is that why you don’t like him?kalm wrote: in Libby, MT, home of a WR Grace
What Trump has done to you is quite an accomplishmentJohnStOnge wrote:On the idea that Trump has accomplished more already than Obama accomplished in 8 years:
Let's go ahead and go with the false premise that things like the stock market going up, GDP growing, and unemployment going down are unilaterally caused by whoever is President at the time.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average increased by 25.08% during Trump's first year (see http://www.1stock1.com/1stock1_139.htm). Yes I know it's not an entire year but he took over on January 20. Was that "accomplishing" more than Obama "accomplished" during his entire term? Of course not. The DJIA increased by 125% during Obama's years (counting 2009 as an Obama year since he took over on January 20). Also, Obama had a year, 2013, during which the Dow Jones Industrial Average increased by 26.5%. It was followed by a year during which it increased by 7.52%. It could be that we could end up with a return higher than 7.52% during 2018. But it hasn't happened yet. Right now, for 2018, the average is up 2.4% from where it was at the start of the first trading day of 2018.
GDP? Real GDP grew by 2.3% during Trump's first year (see https://www.thebalance.com/us-gdp-by-year-3305543). That is lower than 3 of the 8 years during the Obama Presidency. And it's reasonable to say that the first year of the Obama Presidency was recovery from the "Great Recession."
Unemployment? It was 38% lower at the end of the Obama Administration than it was at the beginning (see http://www.multpl.com/unemployment/table). Right now it's 18% lower than it was at the start of the Trump Administration. In order for it to decline by at 38% during the Trump Presidency, it'd have to get down to 3.0% (actually 2.98 but I'm rounding). We'll see if that happens.
Also unemployment was rising when Obama took office and it eventually peaked in 2010 at around 10%. So Obama had to try to reverse things. It was in a long declining Trend when Trump took office.
Obama had several major international agreements. I didn't personally agree with them. But he had them. The Paris Climate Agreement. The Trans Pacific Partnership. The Iran Nuclear Deal. Trump has zero. He's about to start working on one with North Korea. But that's a tough one because we can't say whether it was successful or not even if he reaches one for several years because several previous agreements with North Korea have been reached then North Korea didn't honor them. At this point all Trump has done is give North Korea something it's wanted for decades that previous Presidents wouldn't grant: A direct one on one meeting with the United States.
Domestic legislation? Obama took over during a crisis. So he had the opportunity to sign the Stimulus Act. Also Dodd Frank. The Affordable Care Act. Sequestration was big too. I'm talking about just in terms of signing really big legislation. So far all Trump has is the Republican Tax Act.
On and on. Trump keeps making wild statements about how he had done more than ANY other President and it's just ridiculous. It's what he does. But it doesn't make it true.
Congrats, John. You’ve just cemented your reputation as an Obama-lover as well as a Clinton-lover. Please don’t tell me you’re a registered Libertarian. I’ll have you drummed out of the party.JohnStOnge wrote:On the idea that Trump has accomplished more already than Obama accomplished in 8 years:
Let's go ahead and go with the false premise that things like the stock market going up, GDP growing, and unemployment going down are unilaterally caused by whoever is President at the time.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average increased by 25.08% during Trump's first year (see http://www.1stock1.com/1stock1_139.htm). Yes I know it's not an entire year but he took over on January 20. Was that "accomplishing" more than Obama "accomplished" during his entire term? Of course not. The DJIA increased by 125% during Obama's years (counting 2009 as an Obama year since he took over on January 20). Also, Obama had a year, 2013, during which the Dow Jones Industrial Average increased by 26.5%. It was followed by a year during which it increased by 7.52%. It could be that we could end up with a return higher than 7.52% during 2018. But it hasn't happened yet. Right now, for 2018, the average is up 2.4% from where it was at the start of the first trading day of 2018.
GDP? Real GDP grew by 2.3% during Trump's first year (see https://www.thebalance.com/us-gdp-by-year-3305543). That is lower than 3 of the 8 years during the Obama Presidency. And it's reasonable to say that the first year of the Obama Presidency was recovery from the "Great Recession."
Unemployment? It was 38% lower at the end of the Obama Administration than it was at the beginning (see http://www.multpl.com/unemployment/table). Right now it's 18% lower than it was at the start of the Trump Administration. In order for it to decline by at 38% during the Trump Presidency, it'd have to get down to 3.0% (actually 2.98 but I'm rounding). We'll see if that happens.
Also unemployment was rising when Obama took office and it eventually peaked in 2010 at around 10%. So Obama had to try to reverse things. It was in a long declining Trend when Trump took office.
Obama had several major international agreements. I didn't personally agree with them. But he had them. The Paris Climate Agreement. The Trans Pacific Partnership. The Iran Nuclear Deal. Trump has zero. He's about to start working on one with North Korea. But that's a tough one because we can't say whether it was successful or not even if he reaches one for several years because several previous agreements with North Korea have been reached then North Korea didn't honor them. At this point all Trump has done is give North Korea something it's wanted for decades that previous Presidents wouldn't grant: A direct one on one meeting with the United States.
Domestic legislation? Obama took over during a crisis. So he had the opportunity to sign the Stimulus Act. Also Dodd Frank. The Affordable Care Act. Sequestration was big too. I'm talking about just in terms of signing really big legislation. So far all Trump has is the Republican Tax Act.
On and on. Trump keeps making wild statements about how he had done more than ANY other President and it's just ridiculous. It's what he does. But it doesn't make it true.
That’s some funny schitt right there! Maybe he borrowed his mommy’s.HI54UNI wrote:Trump made the Canadian so nervous he sweated his fake eyebrows off.
JohnStOnge wrote:On the idea that Trump has accomplished more already than Obama accomplished in 8 years:
Let's go ahead and go with the false premise that things like the stock market going up, GDP growing, and unemployment going down are unilaterally caused by whoever is President at the time.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average increased by 25.08% during Trump's first year (see http://www.1stock1.com/1stock1_139.htm). Yes I know it's not an entire year but he took over on January 20. Was that "accomplishing" more than Obama "accomplished" during his entire term? Of course not. The DJIA increased by 125% during Obama's years (counting 2009 as an Obama year since he took over on January 20). Also, Obama had a year, 2013, during which the Dow Jones Industrial Average increased by 26.5%. It was followed by a year during which it increased by 7.52%. It could be that we could end up with a return higher than 7.52% during 2018. But it hasn't happened yet. Right now, for 2018, the average is up 2.4% from where it was at the start of the first trading day of 2018.
GDP? Real GDP grew by 2.3% during Trump's first year (see https://www.thebalance.com/us-gdp-by-year-3305543). That is lower than 3 of the 8 years during the Obama Presidency. And it's reasonable to say that the first year of the Obama Presidency was recovery from the "Great Recession."
Unemployment? It was 38% lower at the end of the Obama Administration than it was at the beginning (see http://www.multpl.com/unemployment/table). Right now it's 18% lower than it was at the start of the Trump Administration. In order for it to decline by at 38% during the Trump Presidency, it'd have to get down to 3.0% (actually 2.98 but I'm rounding). We'll see if that happens.
Also unemployment was rising when Obama took office and it eventually peaked in 2010 at around 10%. So Obama had to try to reverse things. It was in a long declining Trend when Trump took office.
Obama had several major international agreements. I didn't personally agree with them. But he had them. The Paris Climate Agreement. The Trans Pacific Partnership. The Iran Nuclear Deal. Trump has zero. He's about to start working on one with North Korea. But that's a tough one because we can't say whether it was successful or not even if he reaches one for several years because several previous agreements with North Korea have been reached then North Korea didn't honor them. At this point all Trump has done is give North Korea something it's wanted for decades that previous Presidents wouldn't grant: A direct one on one meeting with the United States.
Domestic legislation? Obama took over during a crisis. So he had the opportunity to sign the Stimulus Act. Also Dodd Frank. The Affordable Care Act. Sequestration was big too. I'm talking about just in terms of signing really big legislation. So far all Trump has is the Republican Tax Act.
On and on. Trump keeps making wild statements about how he had done more than ANY other President and it's just ridiculous. It's what he does. But it doesn't make it true.
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions...But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
BDKJMU wrote:JohnStOnge wrote:On the idea that Trump has accomplished more already than Obama accomplished in 8 years:
Let's go ahead and go with the false premise that things like the stock market going up, GDP growing, and unemployment going down are unilaterally caused by whoever is President at the time.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average increased by 25.08% during Trump's first year (see http://www.1stock1.com/1stock1_139.htm). Yes I know it's not an entire year but he took over on January 20. Was that "accomplishing" more than Obama "accomplished" during his entire term? Of course not. The DJIA increased by 125% during Obama's years (counting 2009 as an Obama year since he took over on January 20). Also, Obama had a year, 2013, during which the Dow Jones Industrial Average increased by 26.5%. It was followed by a year during which it increased by 7.52%. It could be that we could end up with a return higher than 7.52% during 2018. But it hasn't happened yet. Right now, for 2018, the average is up 2.4% from where it was at the start of the first trading day of 2018.
GDP? Real GDP grew by 2.3% during Trump's first year (see https://www.thebalance.com/us-gdp-by-year-3305543). That is lower than 3 of the 8 years during the Obama Presidency. And it's reasonable to say that the first year of the Obama Presidency was recovery from the "Great Recession."
Unemployment? It was 38% lower at the end of the Obama Administration than it was at the beginning (see http://www.multpl.com/unemployment/table). Right now it's 18% lower than it was at the start of the Trump Administration. In order for it to decline by at 38% during the Trump Presidency, it'd have to get down to 3.0% (actually 2.98 but I'm rounding). We'll see if that happens.
Also unemployment was rising when Obama took office and it eventually peaked in 2010 at around 10%. So Obama had to try to reverse things. It was in a long declining Trend when Trump took office.
Obama had several major international agreements. I didn't personally agree with them. But he had them. The Paris Climate Agreement. The Trans Pacific Partnership. The Iran Nuclear Deal. Trump has zero. He's about to start working on one with North Korea. But that's a tough one because we can't say whether it was successful or not even if he reaches one for several years because several previous agreements with North Korea have been reached then North Korea didn't honor them. At this point all Trump has done is give North Korea something it's wanted for decades that previous Presidents wouldn't grant: A direct one on one meeting with the United States.
Domestic legislation? Obama took over during a crisis. So he had the opportunity to sign the Stimulus Act. Also Dodd Frank. The Affordable Care Act. Sequestration was big too. I'm talking about just in terms of signing really big legislation. So far all Trump has is the Republican Tax Act.
On and on. Trump keeps making wild statements about how he had done more than ANY other President and it's just ridiculous. It's what he does. But it doesn't make it true.
BDK must be drinking or high, b/c he's developing a sense of humor. Were you this concerned about Da Russians in 2012?∞∞∞ wrote:Can someone tell me why some people are happy at Trump's actions at the G7? All he did was put in a good word for Putin/Russia and screw over western alliances with awful rhetoric. Is it because most of the West is liberal and #librul tears makes it ok? Or do Trumpers really believe the West is screwing us?
I get that as a GOP president, he's going to implement conservative policies at home. But why is the US under Trump wanting to **** up its relations with rich western nations/allies and jeopardize our influential position as the leader of the West in order to have better relations with Russia (a third world economy)?
None of this makes sense; this whole situation is detrimental to everyone except the Russians.
Because he's absolutely right. They've been sucking on our teet for 100 years now and the gravy train is coming to a screeching halt. We've gone $21 trillion in debt trying to defend the entire free world. Time to pay the piper. Put up or shut up. Time to carry your own water.∞∞∞ wrote:Can someone tell me why some people are happy at Trump's actions at the G7? All he did was put in a good word for Putin/Russia and screw over western alliances with awful rhetoric. Is it because most of the West is liberal and #librul tears makes it ok? Or do Trumpers really believe the West is screwing us?
I get that as a GOP president, he's going to implement conservative policies at home. But why is the US under Trump wanting to fuck up its relations with rich western nations/allies and jeopardize our influential position as the leader of the West in order to have better relations with Russia (a third world economy)?
None of this makes sense; this whole situation is detrimental to everyone except the Russians.
You mean when Russia was our greatest ally?CID1990 wrote:Were you this concerned about Da Russians in 2012?∞∞∞ wrote:Can someone tell me why some people are happy at Trump's actions at the G7? All he did was put in a good word for Putin/Russia and screw over western alliances with awful rhetoric. Is it because most of the West is liberal and #librul tears makes it ok? Or do Trumpers really believe the West is screwing us?
I get that as a GOP president, he's going to implement conservative policies at home. But why is the US under Trump wanting to **** up its relations with rich western nations/allies and jeopardize our influential position as the leader of the West in order to have better relations with Russia (a third world economy)?
None of this makes sense; this whole situation is detrimental to everyone except the Russians.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/09/politics ... index.html(CNN)President Donald Trump on Saturday said he wanted to see the elimination of trade barriers between the United States and its closest allies amid tensions over the Trump administration's move to impose steep tariffs on steel and aluminum imports from the EU, Canada and Mexico.
Speaking during an impromptu news conference at the G7 summit in Canada on Saturday, Trump said his ultimate goal was the elimination of all trade duties.
"Ultimately that's what you want," he said. "You want a tariff free. You want no barriers. And you want no subsidies. Because you have some cases where countries are subsidizing industries and that's not fair."
Exactly.AZGrizFan wrote:Because he's absolutely right. They've been sucking on our teet for 100 years now and the gravy train is coming to a screeching halt. We've gone $21 trillion in debt trying to defend the entire free world. Time to pay the piper. Put up or shut up. Time to carry your own water.∞∞∞ wrote:Can someone tell me why some people are happy at Trump's actions at the G7? All he did was put in a good word for Putin/Russia and screw over western alliances with awful rhetoric. Is it because most of the West is liberal and #librul tears makes it ok? Or do Trumpers really believe the West is screwing us?
I get that as a GOP president, he's going to implement conservative policies at home. But why is the US under Trump wanting to fuck up its relations with rich western nations/allies and jeopardize our influential position as the leader of the West in order to have better relations with Russia (a third world economy)?
None of this makes sense; this whole situation is detrimental to everyone except the Russians.
AZGrizFan wrote:Because he's absolutely right. They've been sucking on our teet for 100 years now and the gravy train is coming to a screeching halt. We've gone $21 trillion in debt trying to defend the entire free world. Time to pay the piper. Put up or shut up. Time to carry your own water.∞∞∞ wrote:Can someone tell me why some people are happy at Trump's actions at the G7? All he did was put in a good word for Putin/Russia and screw over western alliances with awful rhetoric. Is it because most of the West is liberal and #librul tears makes it ok? Or do Trumpers really believe the West is screwing us?
I get that as a GOP president, he's going to implement conservative policies at home. But why is the US under Trump wanting to fuck up its relations with rich western nations/allies and jeopardize our influential position as the leader of the West in order to have better relations with Russia (a third world economy)?
None of this makes sense; this whole situation is detrimental to everyone except the Russians.
100 years? Maybe 70. We weren't defending anyone in 1918 (and don't say WW1, our infusion of fresh blood was needed but we didn't win the war solely on our own). I agree with your sentiment - we've been the world police for too long. Every time something comes up it's up to us to act while Europe does nothing. It's time for a more equitable work load. We should share the burden with European and Middle Eastern allies. Not let them take our money, goods and then bad mouth us. 
My latent sense of humor has always been there, it just needed to be educed....Ibanez wrote:BDKJMU wrote:
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions...But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
Please. OFFICIALLY since the inception of NATO in 1949. Unofficially since the end of WWI. A war that goes on for almost 3 years ends six months after we conscript 2 million Americans and send them to France? That's not a coincidence. Europe has been leaning on us heavily ever since for military coverage, all while taking money from our back pockets.Ibanez wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:
Because he's absolutely right. They've been sucking on our teet for 100 years now and the gravy train is coming to a screeching halt. We've gone $21 trillion in debt trying to defend the entire free world. Time to pay the piper. Put up or shut up. Time to carry your own water.
That said - Trump could be more tactful. That's my IMO. Enough with the hyperbole and twitter tantrums.
Were we forced at gunpoint to become world police?SDHornet wrote:Exactly.AZGrizFan wrote:
Because he's absolutely right. They've been sucking on our teet for 100 years now and the gravy train is coming to a screeching halt. We've gone $21 trillion in debt trying to defend the entire free world. Time to pay the piper. Put up or shut up. Time to carry your own water.
It's just the truth. It's ridiculous to say that Trump has accomplished more so far than Obama accomplished during his Presidency. I was opposed to passage of the Affordable Care Act but getting that through, from the standpoint of people getting what they want through, was WAY more of an accomplishment than anything Trump has done. Also something like getting the Iran Nuclear Deal through when the Republicans controlled Congress. Again, I didn't agree with the way that happened as I think it should've been a treaty ratified according to the Constitution. But in terms of level of difficulty it was way more of an accomplishment than anything Trump has done. Put the Democrats in control of both houses of Congress and see if Trump could do anything like that.Ivytalk wrote:Congrats, John. You’ve just cemented your reputation as an Obama-lover as well as a Clinton-lover. Please don’t tell me you’re a registered Libertarian. I’ll have you drummed out of the party.JohnStOnge wrote:On the idea that Trump has accomplished more already than Obama accomplished in 8 years:
Let's go ahead and go with the false premise that things like the stock market going up, GDP growing, and unemployment going down are unilaterally caused by whoever is President at the time.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average increased by 25.08% during Trump's first year (see http://www.1stock1.com/1stock1_139.htm). Yes I know it's not an entire year but he took over on January 20. Was that "accomplishing" more than Obama "accomplished" during his entire term? Of course not. The DJIA increased by 125% during Obama's years (counting 2009 as an Obama year since he took over on January 20). Also, Obama had a year, 2013, during which the Dow Jones Industrial Average increased by 26.5%. It was followed by a year during which it increased by 7.52%. It could be that we could end up with a return higher than 7.52% during 2018. But it hasn't happened yet. Right now, for 2018, the average is up 2.4% from where it was at the start of the first trading day of 2018.
GDP? Real GDP grew by 2.3% during Trump's first year (see https://www.thebalance.com/us-gdp-by-year-3305543). That is lower than 3 of the 8 years during the Obama Presidency. And it's reasonable to say that the first year of the Obama Presidency was recovery from the "Great Recession."
Unemployment? It was 38% lower at the end of the Obama Administration than it was at the beginning (see http://www.multpl.com/unemployment/table). Right now it's 18% lower than it was at the start of the Trump Administration. In order for it to decline by at 38% during the Trump Presidency, it'd have to get down to 3.0% (actually 2.98 but I'm rounding). We'll see if that happens.
Also unemployment was rising when Obama took office and it eventually peaked in 2010 at around 10%. So Obama had to try to reverse things. It was in a long declining Trend when Trump took office.
Obama had several major international agreements. I didn't personally agree with them. But he had them. The Paris Climate Agreement. The Trans Pacific Partnership. The Iran Nuclear Deal. Trump has zero. He's about to start working on one with North Korea. But that's a tough one because we can't say whether it was successful or not even if he reaches one for several years because several previous agreements with North Korea have been reached then North Korea didn't honor them. At this point all Trump has done is give North Korea something it's wanted for decades that previous Presidents wouldn't grant: A direct one on one meeting with the United States.
Domestic legislation? Obama took over during a crisis. So he had the opportunity to sign the Stimulus Act. Also Dodd Frank. The Affordable Care Act. Sequestration was big too. I'm talking about just in terms of signing really big legislation. So far all Trump has is the Republican Tax Act.
On and on. Trump keeps making wild statements about how he had done more than ANY other President and it's just ridiculous. It's what he does. But it doesn't make it true.
Again...I suppose they forced us kicking and screaming to free trade...we had no choice!CitadelGrad wrote:What our "allies" refer to as free trade is anything but free trade. Have you ever seen the actual NAFTA text? It is large and documents managed trade. It is pretty close to Soviet central economic planning principles applied to international trade.
What Trump seems to be working toward is true free trade.
Dude...you’re being trolled...again. Ivy is too smart to believe half of what he types.JohnStOnge wrote:It's just the truth. It's ridiculous to say that Trump has accomplished more so far than Obama accomplished during his Presidency. I was opposed to passage of the Affordable Care Act but getting that through, from the standpoint of people getting what they want through, was WAY more of an accomplishment than anything Trump has done. Also something like getting the Iran Nuclear Deal through when the Republicans controlled Congress. Again, I didn't agree with the way that happened as I think it should've been a treaty ratified according to the Constitution. But in terms of level of difficulty it was way more of an accomplishment than anything Trump has done. Put the Democrats in control of both houses of Congress and see if Trump could do anything like that.Ivytalk wrote: Congrats, John. You’ve just cemented your reputation as an Obama-lover as well as a Clinton-lover. Please don’t tell me you’re a registered Libertarian. I’ll have you drummed out of the party.
We have this thing where Trump talks about how much he's accomplished and people buy it just because he says it. It's nonsense. All that's happened is that he hasn't crashed the car. He took over when things were going well and he hasn't yet screwed things up. Yet.
1) so 71 years. I was right. I said I agreed about Europe leaning on us since the end of WW2.AZGrizFan wrote:Please. OFFICIALLY since the inception of NATO in 1949. Unofficially since the end of WWI. A war that goes on for almost 3 years ends six months after we conscript 2 million Americans and send them to France? That's not a coincidence. Europe has been leaning on us heavily ever since for military coverage, all while taking money from our back pockets.Ibanez wrote:
That said - Trump could be more tactful. That's my IMO. Enough with the hyperbole and twitter tantrums.
If we went to completely free trade the US would lose. Our workers are not willing to work for as low a wage as workers from many places around the world are willing to work. People who think that things would get better for United States workers if we went to completely free trade are smoking rope. There are MANY other countries who can produce products of equal or superior quality at lower cost.CitadelGrad wrote:What our "allies" refer to as free trade is anything but free trade. Have you ever seen the actual NAFTA text? It is large and documents managed trade. It is pretty close to Soviet central economic planning principles applied to international trade.
What Trump seems to be working toward is true free trade.