Meanwhile, in Iceland...

[Chizzang]

John...
Seriously you're embarrassing yourself here
It's NOT EVEN CLOSE

Like I said it's all taste. Like to me it's not even just the singers. I like the whole arrangement better in the Icelandic version. But I do like the Icelandic singer better too.

But there is no objective right or wrong with stuff like this. It's not like sprinter A is faster than sprinter B or powerlifter A can clean jerk more than powerlifter B.

John... There is such a thing as better and worse
and as a life long musician I can't stand for any of that crap you just typed out up there
What you typed is the most benign drivel that liberal participation trophy moms say
about their crappy kids piano recital

There is better and there is worse
and the fact that you have no clue which is which is mostly irrelevant



Led Zeppelin The Ocean vs. Ninety Nine Luft balloons
one is universally better - I"m sure you have no clue which but trust me on this

[houndawg]

John...
Seriously you're embarrassing yourself here
It's NOT EVEN CLOSE

Like I said it's all taste. Like to me it's not even just the singers. I like the whole arrangement better in the Icelandic version. But I do like the Icelandic singer better too.

But there is no objective right or wrong with stuff like this. It's not like sprinter A is faster than sprinter B or powerlifter A can clean jerk more than powerlifter B.

I'm surprised at your ignorance. Cajuns are usually pretty high IQ when it comes to music in my experience.

[CID1990]

Like I said it's all taste. Like to me it's not even just the singers. I like the whole arrangement better in the Icelandic version. But I do like the Icelandic singer better too.

But there is no objective right or wrong with stuff like this. It's not like sprinter A is faster than sprinter B or powerlifter A can clean jerk more than powerlifter B.

John... There is such a thing as better and worse
and as a life long musician I can't stand for any of that crap you just typed out up there
What you typed is the most benign drivel that liberal participation trophy moms say
about their crappy kids piano recital

There is better and there is worse
and the fact that you have no clue which is which is mostly irrelevant



Led Zeppelin The Ocean vs. Ninety Nine Luft balloons
one is universally better - I"m sure you have no clue which but trust me on this

Not to mention that Icelandic ( and all the other guttural Nordic languages) sound about as soulful as Mongolian throat singing

[Chizzang]

John... There is such a thing as better and worse
and as a life long musician I can't stand for any of that crap you just typed out up there
What you typed is the most benign drivel that liberal participation trophy moms say
about their crappy kids piano recital

There is better and there is worse
and the fact that you have no clue which is which is mostly irrelevant



Led Zeppelin The Ocean vs. Ninety Nine Luft balloons
one is universally better - I"m sure you have no clue which but trust me on this

Not to mention that Icelandic ( and all the other guttural Nordic languages) sound about as soulful as Mongolian throat singing

I can't believe I'm forced to debate one of our generations greatest soul singers (Lake Street Dive)
and some Icelandic cover band hack as "Both" neck and neck in blues chops

f*ck me....



No offense to the Icelandic band I love that they're out there doing it
But lets not even begin to compare them to THE SOURCE MATERIAL for fucks sake

[Col Hogan]

Led Zeppelin The Ocean vs. Ninety Nine Luft balloons
one is universally better - I"m sure you have no clue which but trust me on this

Pick me....I know the answer...

[Chizzang]

Led Zeppelin The Ocean vs. Ninety Nine Luft balloons
one is universally better - I"m sure you have no clue which but trust me on this

Pick me....I know the answer...

You got me... I laughed

[expandspanos]

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

The thing about Iceland is.. it's a small enough country to take back pretty easily. People in the US are just too chemically lobotomized, or apathetic by and large to organize.

Also, there is so much cultural/social/ and recently racial division of the population in the US (mostly created on purpose as divide and conquer), makes it easier to do whatever you want to the American people and get away with it.

[89Hen]

Go away troll.

[expandspanos]

Go away troll.

Very insightful comment, thanks for your input.

[89Hen]

Go away troll.

Very insightful comment, thanks for your input.

It's actually more helpful and accurate than anything you post.

[JohnStOnge]

Like I said it's all taste. Like to me it's not even just the singers. I like the whole arrangement better in the Icelandic version. But I do like the Icelandic singer better too.

But there is no objective right or wrong with stuff like this. It's not like sprinter A is faster than sprinter B or powerlifter A can clean jerk more than powerlifter B.

John... There is such a thing as better and worse
and as a life long musician I can't stand for any of that crap you just typed out up there
What you typed is the most benign drivel that liberal participation trophy moms say
about their crappy kids piano recital

There is better and there is worse
and the fact that you have no clue which is which is mostly irrelevant



Led Zeppelin The Ocean vs. Ninety Nine Luft balloons
one is universally better - I"m sure you have no clue which but trust me on this

You probably know less about what is "better" or "worse" about singers than you think you do.

I just say that because I come from a family of singers that did things like the "all State choir" thing. You may think that's nothing. But it's intense. It's blind "sing" testing with specific criteria, etc. I've often thought that many of the most popular and successful singers in the world couldn't do very well.

Now, I'm not one of "them" directly. But I was into the competitions and selections.

Anyway that doesn't really matter either. When it comes to art it is all about taste. Some people undoubtably like Ninety Nine Luft Balloons better than they like Led Zeppelin The Ocean.

[JohnStOnge]

Hey, I'll tell you what I'll do Chizz. When I get the chance I'll ask my Wife and my daughter to rate the two as singers. And no you don't know more about singing than they do. If they go your way I'll be honest and say they rated the American singer higher.

I still like the Icelandic singer better thought.

[Chizzang]

Hey, I'll tell you what I'll do Chizz. When I get the chance I'll ask my Wife and my daughter to rate the two as singers. And no you don't know more about singing than they do. If they go your way I'll be honest and say they rated the American singer higher.

I still like the Icelandic singer better thought.

Ya... Okee Dokee John

[JohnStOnge]

Hey, I'll tell you what I'll do Chizz. When I get the chance I'll ask my Wife and my daughter to rate the two as singers. And no you don't know more about singing than they do. If they go your way I'll be honest and say they rated the American singer higher.

I still like the Icelandic singer better thought.

Ya... Okee Dokee John

Honestly I don't even know why you disagree with me about something like music vs. something that's very objectively measurable. Like if I ask "who ran the fastest 100 meters in the world in 2016?" There's an objective, unambiguous answer to that. It's measurable. No debate.

But if I ask "who did the best job of singing the national anthem last year" there's probably going to be disagreement. There's going to be opinion involved. It's just not the same kind of thing.

[CID1990]

John... There is such a thing as better and worse
and as a life long musician I can't stand for any of that crap you just typed out up there
What you typed is the most benign drivel that liberal participation trophy moms say
about their crappy kids piano recital

There is better and there is worse
and the fact that you have no clue which is which is mostly irrelevant



Led Zeppelin The Ocean vs. Ninety Nine Luft balloons
one is universally better - I"m sure you have no clue which but trust me on this

You probably know less about what is "better" or "worse" about singers than you think you do.

I just say that because I come from a family of singers that did things like the "all State choir" thing. You may think that's nothing. But it's intense. It's blind "sing" testing with specific criteria, etc. I've often thought that many of the most popular and successful singers in the world couldn't do very well.

Now, I'm not one of "them" directly. But I was into the competitions and selections.

Anyway that doesn't really matter either. When it comes to art it is all about taste. Some people undoubtably like Ninety Nine Luft Balloons better than they like Led Zeppelin The Ocean.

so what youre saying, basically, is that you and your wife stayed in a holiday inn express last night


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chizzang]

Ya... Okee Dokee John

Honestly I don't even know why you disagree with me about something like music vs. something that's very objectively measurable. Like if I ask "who ran the fastest 100 meters in the world in 2016?" There's an objective, unambiguous answer to that. It's measurable. No debate.

But if I ask "who did the best job of singing the national anthem last year" there's probably going to be disagreement. There's going to be opinion involved. It's just not the same kind of thing.

John,
You pedantic twat

Now pay attention because this might be the last times I help you

If taste is just a matter of personal preference
Each person has things they like, but no one's preferences are any better than anyone else's
Then: There is no such thing as good taste.

Do you know how much classical music was produced in the mid-17 hundreds..?
No you don't (trick question, nobody does)
But the dozen or so composers and their work that remain
it remains because it was the cream of the era

The RIDICULOUS IDEA that art of any kind is strictly "personal" is some serious bullsh!t
and it's propagated by morons, public school educated nitwits and participation trophy winners

If what you're suggesting is true John
One problem with saying there's no such thing as good taste
is that it also means there's no such thing as good art

If you'd like to pull on that thread John
I will unravel the entire concept of personal taste for you
But first you have to promise to read the 500 words It'll take to show you

I'll give you a hint - the key is in the human face and global concepts of beauty
Ponder that and see if you're curious

[CID1990]

no no no Clotz

Anything Karl Maria von Weber ever wrote is right up there with Beethoven's 9th

because I personally like grotesque virtuosity on display

therefore

Weber = Beethoven


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pwns]

John... There is such a thing as better and worse
and as a life long musician I can't stand for any of that crap you just typed out up there
What you typed is the most benign drivel that liberal participation trophy moms say
about their crappy kids piano recital

There is better and there is worse
and the fact that you have no clue which is which is mostly irrelevant



Led Zeppelin The Ocean vs. Ninety Nine Luft balloons
one is universally better - I"m sure you have no clue which but trust me on this

There are obviously objective standards for skill in playing a musical instrument.

In my mind, though, there are only two objective criteria for evaluating music (and the same applies for literature and film).
1. By how many people is the music genuinely appreciated (i.e. people don't pretend to like it so others will think they're sophisticated)
and
2. How well does it stand the test of time (e.g. no one will listen to Justin Bieber 20 years from now, only Generation X gives a crap about Prince)

If you try and come up with any concrete criteria for what constitutes "good music" it will inevitably fail, like those guys that tried to make a computer program that could evaluate writing and some MIT professor showed you could create computer-generated gibberish that would score high.

I don't care for certain musical genres and a lot of contemporary music, but if they really required no talent to produce I'd be in the recording industry making my fortune right now.

[OL FU]

I'll side with chizzang on this one. Certainly taste is involved in artistic appreciation. I'm not a fan of "progressive" rock. Rarely listen to it and don't really enjoy it when I do. But that doesn't mean that it isn't quality music with extraordinarily good musicians. and it doesn't mean I can't appreciate it's artistic values.

But certainly musicianship, style, innovation, arrangement etc are things that can be understood while not accurately measured.

Singer's are in my opinion more difficult sense there is a wide range of qualities that vary greatly with different musical styles. (Certainly music itself varies but generally it is governed by the same measurement generally - the arrangement of notes). Personally from a stand point of singers, it is almost impossible to compare different genres. How do you compare Bill Monroe to Pavarotti or to Frank Sinatra. So personally, I think it is better to compare singers within a genre of music.

With that said, While 99 Luft Balloons and Led Zeppelin are in the broad genre of "rock", after that there is no comparison. Led Zeppelin = innovated, dynamic, influential, long lasting. 99 Luft Balloons = pop bull shit.

[Chizzang]

I wrote an extremely long paper on this in college... something like 60 pages
The evidence that Great is Great, is overwhelming

Pwns score big points for making one of the standard barer points
"Mass appeal and appreciation over time"

Also:
Consider the human face and what humans select as beautiful
is overwhelmingly similar across all cultures
American caucasians can select 3 Chinese faces out of 300 as beautiful
and natural born Chinese people will select the same 3 faces

How does this happen..?

Because it's NOT arbitrary subjective bullsh!t
Beautiful is overwhelmingly beautiful
and everybody knows it when they see it (and I do mean everybody)
and THAT is the starting point of the debate

[CAA Flagship]

Regarding music, I think many will agree that there are many, multiple album, bands that produced their best work during the first half of their recording careers. Rolling Stones, Bruce Springsteen, REM, U2, etc.

Why is that? Some might say that these bands were simpler then. Less sophisticated. Not as advanced. Inexperienced.

But as they became more knowledgeable about song writing, other instruments, and complicated arrangements, their music became less "liked".

Would you art lovers say that good art is primarily a product of it's degree of difficulty? Or simplicity?

[89Hen]

Pwns score big points for making one of the standard barer points
"Mass appeal and appreciation over time"

[Chizzang]

Regarding music, I think many will agree that there are many, multiple album, bands that produced their best work during the first half of their recording careers. Rolling Stones, Bruce Springsteen, REM, U2, etc.

Why is that? Some might say that these bands were simpler then. Less sophisticated. Not as advanced. Inexperienced.

But as they became more knowledgeable about song writing, other instruments, and complicated arrangements, their music became less "liked".

Would you art lovers say that good art is primarily a product of it's degree of difficulty? Or simplicity?

Dumb analogy... But nice try

The Rolling Stones material did not really get more complicated or more sophisticated
Their technical height was probably 1976 and they had 3 very successful albums after that

Here's what happened:
The quality of the product simply decreased

Art is not something that any single entity can produce in unlimited quantities
and it never has been - Andy Warhol attempted to make this exact same point

But anyway:
Best leave this debate to the adults

[89Hen]

But anyway:
Best leave this debate to the adults

It's hard to understand why people don't just accept you as the authority of everything.

[Chizzang]

But anyway:
Best leave this debate to the adults

It's hard to understand why people don't just accept you as the authority of everything.

Says the guy that posted an alcoholic beverage in a debate about Art