Kerry Fails Again-Iran Talks Extended-No Agreement In Sight

[CID1990]

Military service should be neither necessary or disqualifying.

However, saying something like Trump said about McCain being a POW back early during the Republican primaries should be disqualifying. You know, a guy who was not in the military and sought multiple deferments in order to avoid being drafted saying that about someone who could've gotten out of it but instead volunteered. Sensible people would have absolutely refused to vote for such a person.

But, unfortunately, we obviously have 10s of millions of people who are not sensible persons.

Could have gotten out of it my ass. That would be career suicide for the son of an admiral who (barely) graduated from Annapolis. He would have been like Z: watching the other officers fly jets while he babysat the MKRBs.

That whole "barely graduated" canard is what you call a "tell"

Only someone who doesn't know jack about the USNA repeats it

They don't have a "2.0" etched on their ring for nothing - every single middie I know (including two first cousins) "barely graduated"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[∞∞∞]

Holy **** Trip is taking a complete beating in this thread and rightfully so.

A little advice Trip: Stop posting in this thread or you might find yourself next to Opie, Razor, houndy, (and soon jellybean) on the CS.com Mnt Rushmore Retard Thread Hall of Fame if this goes on for another 20 pages.

I'm ok with that; resistance to radical ideas is expected.

It's time to call out the BS going on in this nation where Americans are taking advantage of Americans. I live in an area where every other person is a defense contractor and it's complete insanity. They live in their large mansions, send their kids to top-notch schools, enjoy good roads and parks...while much of America barely gets by working on jobs that actually keep a sustainable economic engine running.

The nation needs top-down reform and the military industrial complex is a good place to start. Wall-street too. If it means a complete overhaul of political structures is needed, then so be it.

[kalm]

Holy **** Trip is taking a complete beating in this thread and rightfully so.

A little advice Trip: Stop posting in this thread or you might find yourself next to Opie, Razor, houndy, (and soon jellybean) on the CS.com Mnt Rushmore Retard Thread Hall of Fame if this goes on for another 20 pages.

I'm ok with that; resistance to radical ideas is expected.

It's time to call out the BS going on in this nation where Americans are taking advantage of Americans. I live in an area where every other person is a defense contractor and it's complete insanity. They live in their large mansions, send their kids to top-notch schools, enjoy good roads and parks...while much of America barely gets by working on jobs that actually keep a sustainable economic engine running.

The nation needs top-down reform and the military industrial complex is a good place to start. Wall-street too. If it means a complete overhaul of political structures is needed, then so be it.

This is a good post.

Trip, I appreciate your arguments here and while I disagree with some of it, I think it's worthy of discussing.

I have a friend who was a SERE instructor in the Air Force, another who is a combat vet from the VietNam War, and another who spent 5 weeks in a trench killing Germans at close range, watching his own friends get killed, and finally getting to come home after a million dollar wound in the Battle of the Bulge.

All 3 would agree with much of what you've said but at the same time, all 3 would make worthy leaders in the defense department. They "get it" sort of like how Ike got it.

The ultimate problem (my JSO broken record) like most other issues with government is money in politics and the entrenched power of large corporations and lobbyists.

[andy7171]

Holy **** Trip is taking a complete beating in this thread and rightfully so.

A little advice Trip: Stop posting in this thread or you might find yourself next to Opie, Razor, houndy, (and soon jellybean) on the CS.com Mnt Rushmore Retard Thread Hall of Fame if this goes on for another 20 pages.

I'm ok with that; resistance to radical ideas is expected.

It's time to call out the BS going on in this nation where Americans are taking advantage of Americans. I live in an area where every other person is a defense contractor and it's complete insanity. They live in their large mansions, send their kids to top-notch schools, enjoy good roads and parks...while much of America barely gets by working on jobs that actually keep a sustainable economic engine running.

The nation needs top-down reform and the military industrial complex is a good place to start. Wall-street too. If it means a complete overhaul of political structures is needed, then so be it.

Its making more sense now, jealously.
You work/worked for one of them best up and coming engineering companies on the east coast.

Make yours. Dont bitch about those who are.

[UNI88]

I'm ok with that; resistance to radical ideas is expected.

It's time to call out the BS going on in this nation where Americans are taking advantage of Americans. I live in an area where every other person is a defense contractor and it's complete insanity. They live in their large mansions, send their kids to top-notch schools, enjoy good roads and parks...while much of America barely gets by working on jobs that actually keep a sustainable economic engine running.

The nation needs top-down reform and the military industrial complex is a good place to start. Wall-street too. If it means a complete overhaul of political structures is needed, then so be it.

This is a good post.

Trip, I appreciate your arguments here and while I disagree with some of it, I think it's worthy of discussing.

I have a friend who was a SERE instructor in the Air Force, another who is a combat vet from the VietNam War, and another who spent 5 weeks in a trench killing Germans at close range, watching his own friends get killed, and finally getting to come home after a million dollar wound in the Battle of the Bulge.

All 3 would agree with much of what you've said but at the same time, all 3 would make worthy leaders in the defense department. They "get it" sort of like how Ike got it.

The ultimate problem (my JSO broken record) like most other issues with government is money in politics and the entrenched power of large corporations and lobbyists.

You forgot to include unions in your entrecl

[Col Hogan]

I’ve seen no mention of Congress in this discussion of the M-I-C...

Defense contractors can propose weapons/equipment/projects...and SECDEF can love them...

But Congress has to vote to approve the money...which they do willingly...

In fact, Congress has voted numerous times for systems the military leaders don’t want...

And DoD has been trying to close excess bases for years...and Congress keeps turning them down...

Maybe we need to change Congress first...

[UNI88]

This is a good post.

Trip, I appreciate your arguments here and while I disagree with some of it, I think it's worthy of discussing.

I have a friend who was a SERE instructor in the Air Force, another who is a combat vet from the VietNam War, and another who spent 5 weeks in a trench killing Germans at close range, watching his own friends get killed, and finally getting to come home after a million dollar wound in the Battle of the Bulge.

All 3 would agree with much of what you've said but at the same time, all 3 would make worthy leaders in the defense department. They "get it" sort of like how Ike got it.

The ultimate problem (my JSO broken record) like most other issues with government is money in politics and the entrenched power of large corporations and lobbyists.

You forgot to include unions in your entrecl

Should say you forgot to include unions in your list of entrenched power brokers.

[kalm]

You forgot to include unions in your entrecl

Should say you forgot to include unions in your list of entrenched power brokers.

“Entrecl”?

I have no clue what that is. And Andy admonishes ME for correctly using “ale” instead of “beer”.


I’ve said all along that union money should be kept out as well. And yes, they too are entrenched power brokers.

[andy7171]

Should say you forgot to include unions in your list of entrenched power brokers.

“Entrecl”?

I have no clue what that is. And Andy admonishes ME for correctly using “ale” instead of “beer”.


I’ve said all along that union money should be kept out as well. And yes, they too are entrenched power brokers.

What is a sensitive weenie, Alex? Nitpicky Nicky, for $1000.

[UNI88]

Yup..the military should serve at the complete whim of the people, with little to no bias whatsoever. We already have a potent military industrial complex going...time to radically reign it in.

The extension of that logic is that the department of education should be run by someone without an education background who is willing and able to be critical of the organization. DeVos is perfect.

[andy7171]

Yup..the military should serve at the complete whim of the people, with little to no bias whatsoever. We already have a potent military industrial complex going...time to radically reign it in.

The extension of that logic is that the department of education should be run by someone without an education background who is willing and able to be critical of the organization. DeVos is perfect.

That's just wrong. Trip is all ready spinning around faster than he can handle. This will just start to cause a wobble.

[∞∞∞]

The extension of that logic is that the department of education should be run by someone without an education background who is willing and able to be critical of the organization. DeVos is perfect.

That's just wrong. Trip is all ready spinning around faster than he can handle. This will just start to cause a wobble.

No spin. It's wrong because education is one of the greatest long-term investments a society can make.

The DoE takes up 3% of the budget; the DoD takes up 17%. Those numbers should be flipped.

[Ibanez]

I’ve seen no mention of Congress in this discussion of the M-I-C...

Defense contractors can propose weapons/equipment/projects...and SECDEF can love them...

But Congress has to vote to approve the money...which they do willingly...

In fact, Congress has voted numerous times for systems the military leaders don’t want...

And DoD has been trying to close excess bases for years...and Congress keeps turning them down...

Maybe we need to change Congress first...

This. From 2010 to, probably present, the Pentagon said to stop buying Abram tanks. Congress kept building them.

I guess the DoD could direct that the money not be used but there's too much lobbying going on to allow fiscal responsibility.



Found an article:

https://www.military.com/daily-news/201 ... -need.html

or three years, the Army in numerous Congressional hearings has pushed a plan that essentially would have suspended tank building and upgrades in the U.S. for the first time since World War II. The Army suggested that production lines could be kept open through foreign sales.

Each time, Congress has pushed back. In December, Congress won again in the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2015 that funded $120 million for Abrams tank upgrades.

The Army and the Marine Corps currently have about 9,000 Abrams tanks in their inventories. The tank debate between the Army and Congress goes back to 2012 when Odierno testified that the Army doesn't need more tanks.

Odierno lost then too. Congress voted for another $183 million for tanks despite Odierno's argument that the Army was seeking to become a lighter force.

[Ibanez]

Yup..the military should serve at the complete whim of the people, with little to no bias whatsoever. We already have a potent military industrial complex going...time to radically reign it in.

The extension of that logic is that the department of education should be run by someone without an education background who is willing and able to be critical of the organization. DeVos is perfect.

I believe I made that point a few pages back.

[Col Hogan]

That's just wrong. Trip is all ready spinning around faster than he can handle. This will just start to cause a wobble.

No spin. It's wrong because education is one of the greatest long-term investments a society can make.

The DoE takes up 3% of the budget; the DoD takes up 17%. Those numbers should be flipped.

Why do you hate the Constitution so much???

[∞∞∞]

No spin. It's wrong because education is one of the greatest long-term investments a society can make.

The DoE takes up 3% of the budget; the DoD takes up 17%. Those numbers should be flipped.

Why do you hate the Constitution so much???

I don't hate the Constitution; it's a pretty remarkable document for its time.

I think America can do better though, especially in the 21st century.

[UNI88]

That's just wrong. Trip is all ready spinning around faster than he can handle. This will just start to cause a wobble.

No spin. It's wrong because education is one of the greatest long-term investments a society can make.

The DoE takes up 3% of the budget; the DoD takes up 17%. Those numbers should be flipped.

I agree that education (and opportunity) should be a huge priority (read my posting history). But the federal government has demonstrated that they are significantly less competent at education than they are at national defense so IMO this should be left to the states and done so without the unfunded mandates.

You're theory idealistically assumes that we live in a peaceful world where there aren't people trying to destroy us and our way of life (such as Islamic terrorists) or over take our leadership (China). You also forget that we're subsidizing the defense of Western Europe, South Korea and others.

[BDKJMU]

That's just wrong. Trip is all ready spinning around faster than he can handle. This will just start to cause a wobble.

No spin. It's wrong because education is one of the greatest long-term investments a society can make.

The DoE takes up 3% of the budget; the DoD takes up 17%. Those numbers should be flipped.

No they shouldnt. If anything the DoE should be abolished. We don’t even need a bloated federal DoE of close to 4K employees and 70 billion $$ forcing mandates onto local & state schools. And the fed shouldn’t even be involved in the student loan program. All that has done has driven up tuition costs, encouraged more students to take on loans they can’t afford, and forcing taxpayers to cover costs. Education is a local & state matter- let the locals and states run the schools & universities as they see fit.

[93henfan]

Could have gotten out of it my ass. That would be career suicide for the son of an admiral who (barely) graduated from Annapolis. He would have been like Z: watching the other officers fly jets while he babysat the MKRBs.

That whole "barely graduated" canard is what you call a "tell"

Only someone who doesn't know jack about the USNA repeats it

They don't have a "2.0" etched on their ring for nothing - every single middie I know (including two first cousins) "barely graduated"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The USNA grads that made up about a third of my TBS company in Quantico were unimpressive to say the least. Entitled, lacking a Marine Corps level of military bearing or a Marine Corps level of personal initiative or courage. Last to lead. Last to volunteer. They seemed to just want to get through their contract and on to the private sector. This is, of course, a generalization, but a widely-held one among many non-Academy-sourced Marine officers. It’s not a jealousy thing toward the ring-knockers either. There were a few good ones, but they were indeed few.

[Col Hogan]

Why do you hate the Constitution so much???

I don't hate the Constitution; it's a pretty remarkable document for its time.

I think America can do better though, especially in the 21st century.

Then fix it...otherwise it’s the law of the land...

Education is NOT a federal responsibility under the Constitution...DoE should be blown up...wiped out...NOW!

But, you don’t really care about following the law...

[AZGrizFan]

I don't hate the Constitution; it's a pretty remarkable document for its time.

I think America can do better though, especially in the 21st century.

Then fix it...otherwise it’s the law of the land...

Education is NOT a federal responsibility under the Constitution...DoE should be blown up...wiped out...NOW!

But, you don’t really care about following the law...

Well Colonel, that's because its a moral, conscience, "common sense" issue...

[AZGrizFan]

No spin. It's wrong because education is one of the greatest long-term investments a society can make.

The DoE takes up 3% of the budget; the DoD takes up 17%. Those numbers should be flipped.

No they shouldnt. If anything the DoE should be abolished. We don’t even need a bloated federal DoE of close to 4K employees and 70 billion $$ forcing mandates onto local & state schools. And the fed shouldn’t even be involved in the student loan program. All that has done has driven up tuition costs, encouraged more students to take on loans they can’t afford, and forcing taxpayers to cover costs. Education is a local & state matter- let the locals and states run the schools & universities as they see fit.

OUT. OF. THE. PARK.

[CID1990]

That whole "barely graduated" canard is what you call a "tell"

Only someone who doesn't know jack about the USNA repeats it

They don't have a "2.0" etched on their ring for nothing - every single middie I know (including two first cousins) "barely graduated"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The USNA grads that made up about a third of my TBS company in Quantico were unimpressive to say the least. Entitled, lacking a Marine Corps level of military bearing or a Marine Corps level of personal initiative or courage. Last to lead. Last to volunteer. They seemed to just want to get through their contract and on to the private sector. This is, of course, a generalization, but a widely-held one among many non-Academy-sourced Marine officers. It’s not a jealousy thing toward the ring-knockers either. There were a few good ones, but they were indeed few.

Well now you’re talking about USNA grads in general

I never said the majority of them weren’t asshats

But the “barely graduated” thing is pure ignorance of just about everything

[Chizzang]

No spin. It's wrong because education is one of the greatest long-term investments a society can make.

The DoE takes up 3% of the budget; the DoD takes up 17%. Those numbers should be flipped.

No they shouldnt. If anything the DoE should be abolished. We don’t even need a bloated federal DoE of close to 4K employees and 70 billion $$ forcing mandates onto local & state schools. And the fed shouldn’t even be involved in the student loan program. All that has done has driven up tuition costs, encouraged more students to take on loans they can’t afford, and forcing taxpayers to cover costs. Education is a local & state matter- let the locals and states run the schools & universities as they see fit.

we don't agree often... But we do here ^

[houndawg]

The USNA grads that made up about a third of my TBS company in Quantico were unimpressive to say the least. Entitled, lacking a Marine Corps level of military bearing or a Marine Corps level of personal initiative or courage. Last to lead. Last to volunteer. They seemed to just want to get through their contract and on to the private sector. This is, of course, a generalization, but a widely-held one among many non-Academy-sourced Marine officers. It’s not a jealousy thing toward the ring-knockers either. There were a few good ones, but they were indeed few.

Well now you’re talking about USNA grads in general

I never said the majority of them weren’t asshats

But the “barely graduated” thing is pure ignorance of just about everything

The Navy says he graduated 894th out of 899. Usually not the guys that get the choice flying gigs.

But I see your point - what with all the talent being at Annapolis he'd have easily graduated at the top any of the lower-tier academies like the Citadel by a pretty wide margin.