Govt Motors to recall 8,000 Chevy Volts

[93henfan]

Ok I'm sorry for not adding "in the US." For some reason I thought I did.

Also I never said luxury "car" in general; I said in its category.

There is no doubt that Tesla Model 3 sales in the US in 2018 are damn impressive. It is going to be the undisputed winner of individual model sales in the Luxury Midsize sales category in the US. That would probably shock a lot of people in rural America or overseas, as you just don't see the Model 3 on the road much. To people like you and me who spend a lot of time in a bubble like Washington DC, where electric vehicles make some sense and salaries and disposable income are artificially high, seeing a Tesla Model 3 on the street is a daily occurrence.

They're still not the luxury brand leader, as BMW still beats them here, and of course BMW absolutely destroys Tesla sales outside the US, as I posted previously. And that is just the luxury segment. In total sales, VW is kicking everyone's ass, even after their scandals.

Where Tesla needs to improve in the US is in the SUV/Crossover category which, much to my chagrin, are where US car buyers are migrating to rapidly.

[∞∞∞]

Where Tesla needs to improve in the US is in the SUV/Crossover category which, much to my chagrin, are where US car buyers are migrating to rapidly.

This is the most depressing fact about car buying today. And although I hate it, I get the practicality of CUVs. They're basically lifted station wagons which makes them a swiss-knife of body styles.

Whatever though, hopefully it makes the sedan cheaper...although I can see sedans become a niche product commanding a larger price. It would definitely suck if they go the way of the coupe where choices are limited.

[CID1990]

Ok I'm sorry for not adding "in the US." For some reason I thought I did.

Also I never said luxury "car" in general; I said in its category.

See - this is you being low-info

You need to read more than the clickbait headlines

I assumed you were saying in America only - that's not the quibble

Read the Bloomberg article and you'll find two easy facts:

1. Tesla 3 is outselling all cars EXCEPT for 4 other sedans

2. Tesla does not break out sales by country -

Regardless, Tesla is doing well after a bumpy rollout on the Model 3 and I'm glad

But saying it is the #1 selling car in ANY category in Murica is not supported by any of those articles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[93henfan]

1. Tesla 3 is outselling all cars EXCEPT for 4 other sedans

In his defense, I think Trip did say "luxury" though. Aren't the other four Camry's and Accord's and such? Non-luxury cars?

That's why VW and Toyota kill it internationally. They have a car for every mofo.

Not everyone can swing a $55K Tesla Model 3. Plus some people (like me) don't want to sweat the 200ish (lower when it's cold) mile range.

Nerd alert: I sometimes monitor a ham radio repeater out of Davidsonville MD that is used by commuters. One guy had a Nissan Leaf. There were days in the winter where he was turning things off in the car and lowering the heat to barely tolerable just so he could make it from his house on Eastern Shore MD to his job at a Nissan dealer in Waldorf. Then he'd plug in again and pray in the afternoon, though warmer temps helped.

[GannonFan]

seeing a Tesla Model 3 on the street is a daily occurrence.

That was a striking thing about our trip to CA this summer (started in San Fran, left out of San Diego) - you'd see a Tesla almost once a minute, and even more so outside of Palo Alto. Heck, the Tesla was sometimes the vehicle they left out on the street in those parts.

[93henfan]

seeing a Tesla Model 3 on the street is a daily occurrence.

That was a striking thing about our trip to CA this summer (started in San Fran, left out of San Diego) - you'd see a Tesla almost once a minute, and even more so outside of Palo Alto. Heck, the Tesla was sometimes the vehicle they left out on the street in those parts.

No joke. I see probably an average of three Model S's and one Model 3 just walking during lunch each day near the National Mall. They are very popular in DC. Not Prius popular, but still popular.

I probably see 20 private Priuses and 50 taxi Priuses during the same walk.

[HI54UNI]

My industry is going crazy to try and figure out how to deal with electric vehicles. If I buy one and put a fast charger in my garage the electrical distribution system is OK. What happens when 1 or 2 of my neighbors also do that? The utility may need to upsize the transformer that serves our homes. But how do we know when everybody is buying an EV so we can upsize the transformer before the problems start. Some utilities are starting to give rebates to people buying EVs simply so they know who has them. And as more EVs are sold how do you avoid demand and related price spikes at certain times of day as people get home from work and charge them? As semi trucks become electrified how do you handle the demand spikes from charging the huge battery packs in a semi? And what infrastructure will be needed to serve trucks? Imagine a truck stop serving multiple semis at the same time. Grid storage systems will help. Time of use pricing will help but I'm not sure much of the public is ready for it.

A lot of interesting dynamic behind the scenes of EVs.

[∞∞∞]

Ok I'm sorry for not adding "in the US." For some reason I thought I did.

Also I never said luxury "car" in general; I said in its category.

See - this is you being low-info

You need to read more than the clickbait headlines

I assumed you were saying in America only - that's not the quibble

Read the Bloomberg article and you'll find two easy facts:

1. Tesla 3 is outselling all cars EXCEPT for 4 other sedans

2. Tesla does not break out sales by country -

Regardless, Tesla is doing well after a bumpy rollout on the Model 3 and I'm glad

But saying it is the #1 selling car in ANY category in Murica is not supported by any of those articles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I said luxury in its category.

And I linked American sales and European sales for the Tesla S; the Tesla 3 is only sold in America so far.

[CAA Flagship]

My industry is going crazy to try and figure out how to deal with electric vehicles. If I buy one and put a fast charger in my garage the electrical distribution system is OK. What happens when 1 or 2 of my neighbors also do that? The utility may need to upsize the transformer that serves our homes. But how do we know when everybody is buying an EV so we can upsize the transformer before the problems start. Some utilities are starting to give rebates to people buying EVs simply so they know who has them. And as more EVs are sold how do you avoid demand and related price spikes at certain times of day as people get home from work and charge them? As semi trucks become electrified how do you handle the demand spikes from charging the huge battery packs in a semi? And what infrastructure will be needed to serve trucks? Imagine a truck stop serving multiple semis at the same time. Grid storage systems will help. Time of use pricing will help but I'm not sure much of the public is ready for it.

A lot of interesting dynamic behind the scenes of EVs.

Moar Coal.

[HI54UNI]

My industry is going crazy to try and figure out how to deal with electric vehicles. If I buy one and put a fast charger in my garage the electrical distribution system is OK. What happens when 1 or 2 of my neighbors also do that? The utility may need to upsize the transformer that serves our homes. But how do we know when everybody is buying an EV so we can upsize the transformer before the problems start. Some utilities are starting to give rebates to people buying EVs simply so they know who has them. And as more EVs are sold how do you avoid demand and related price spikes at certain times of day as people get home from work and charge them? As semi trucks become electrified how do you handle the demand spikes from charging the huge battery packs in a semi? And what infrastructure will be needed to serve trucks? Imagine a truck stop serving multiple semis at the same time. Grid storage systems will help. Time of use pricing will help but I'm not sure much of the public is ready for it.

A lot of interesting dynamic behind the scenes of EVs.

Moar Coal.

Having the kWh available to charge the batteries isn't the issue. Most of it is related to delivery. An example - if you plug your new Tesla in at the "wrong time" as far as my utility is concerned and hit our peak that charge could cost my utility $55 in transmission charges yet we'll make less than $5 in kWh charges. Only the government can make that work.

[AZGrizFan]

I do think it's hilarious that electric cars are considered "green". Where in the fuck do the environmentalists think that electricity comes from? Unicorns? No...dams, coal, nuclear power, natural gas, etc., etc (oh, and 3% from windmills and solar ). Fucking retards, the lot of 'em.

[∞∞∞]

I do think it's hilarious that electric cars are considered "green". Where in the **** do the environmentalists think that electricity comes from? Unicorns? No...dams, coal, nuclear power, natural gas, etc., etc (oh, and 3% from windmills and solar ). **** retards, the lot of 'em.

Electric cars are more efficient than the internal combustion engine. That's the point.

There's no arguing the math behind the environmental benefits of electric cars.

[Grizalltheway]

I do think it's hilarious that electric cars are considered "green". Where in the fuck do the environmentalists think that electricity comes from? Unicorns? No...dams, coal, nuclear power, natural gas, etc., etc (oh, and 3% from windmills and solar ). Fucking retards, the lot of 'em.

So we should wait until electricity is %100 green to start phasing in electric cars?

[93henfan]

We can continue to try to improve how we harness and use energy or we can just deplete it all in the easiest methods we know, which are proven to be limited, have adverse effects on our environment, and will likely render our planet uninhabitable sooner rather than later.

I think it makes sense to try to get out of the fossil rut as soon as possible, as long as we can do it fairly. If our country is held to a higher standard, though, than the current sweatshop nations of China and India, then that's inherently unfair and is a competitive disadvantage. We have to find a way to get China and India on board, and have a mechanism to monitor and enforce their compliance, before we should be expected to outlay the trillions that are going to be needed to really go green.

[AZGrizFan]

I do think it's hilarious that electric cars are considered "green". Where in the fuck do the environmentalists think that electricity comes from? Unicorns? No...dams, coal, nuclear power, natural gas, etc., etc (oh, and 3% from windmills and solar ). Fucking retards, the lot of 'em.

So we should wait until electricity is %100 green to start phasing in electric cars?

Good GOD what a nonstarter of an argument. A) electricity will NEVER be 100% green, and B) in the interim, they're actually INCREASING demand from the very sources that they loathe. Too nuanced for you, klammy jr?

[AZGrizFan]

I do think it's hilarious that electric cars are considered "green". Where in the **** do the environmentalists think that electricity comes from? Unicorns? No...dams, coal, nuclear power, natural gas, etc., etc (oh, and 3% from windmills and solar ). **** retards, the lot of 'em.

Electric cars are more efficient than the internal combustion engine. That's the point.

There's no arguing the math behind the environmental benefits of electric cars.

Great. If you start at the point the car drives off the dealer lot. Any idea about the environmental impact of the batteries, both the making of and the disposal of? How about the production of electricity and the long-term negative effects of driving up demand for THAT?

[∞∞∞]

Electric cars are more efficient than the internal combustion engine. That's the point.

There's no arguing the math behind the environmental benefits of electric cars.

Great. If you start at the point the car drives off the dealer lot. Any idea about the environmental impact of the batteries, both the making of and the disposal of? How about the production of electricity and the long-term negative effects of driving up demand for THAT?

It's all better. Batteries are now recyclable and from cradle to grave, electric vehicles are an environmentally superior solution with the tech we have (and continue to develop).

This is not some sort of big conspiracy against fossil fuels.

[Grizalltheway]

So we should wait until electricity is %100 green to start phasing in electric cars?

Good GOD what a nonstarter of an argument. A) electricity will NEVER be 100% green, and B) in the interim, they're actually INCREASING demand from the very sources that they loathe. Too nuanced for you, klammy jr?

My point is that getting off of fossil fuels is a long and drawn-out process. Are there people who drive electric cars and don't know where their electricity comes from? I'm sure. That doesn't mean it's the case with everyone.

[AZGrizFan]

Great. If you start at the point the car drives off the dealer lot. Any idea about the environmental impact of the batteries, both the making of and the disposal of? How about the production of electricity and the long-term negative effects of driving up demand for THAT?

It's all better. Batteries are now recyclable and from cradle to grave, electric vehicles are an environmentally superior solution with the tech we have (and continue to develop).

This is not some sort of big conspiracy against fossil fuels.

I couldn't give two shits about fossil fuels. Better start writing letters to your congressmen then about all the protesters who want dams blown up, nuke plants shut down, coal-fired plants shut down, etc., etc. Electricity isn't just "there". It has to be created. And that creation causes issues, no matter what you do with it.

[AZGrizFan]

Good GOD what a nonstarter of an argument. A) electricity will NEVER be 100% green, and B) in the interim, they're actually INCREASING demand from the very sources that they loathe. Too nuanced for you, klammy jr?

My point is that getting off of fossil fuels is a long and drawn-out process. Are there people who drive electric cars and don't know where their electricity comes from? I'm sure. That doesn't mean it's the case with everyone.

I'd bet the vast majority think it just comes out of the plug in on their wall. No fucking clue how its' produced. Yes, America is THAT stupid.

[93henfan]

I am convinced that cats and laser pens could be the answer to clean power generation.

[Chizzang]

I don’t follow this as meticulously as you or others on this thread, and I’m a full on fanboy of Tesla

But hasn’t the Model 3 been something of a train wreck?

The "train wreck" part is mostly from US Press releases paid for by Ford and GM
In other words Car reviewers that make 85% of their income writing fluff articles for Gm and Ford



And when you compare Tesla to other vehicles you compare by market and by category

Tesla only makes High Efficiency Luxury Cars
So it is only reasonable to compare US sales in that category

and in that category they dominate

Model(s) September 2018 USA Sales
Tesla Model 3 24,040
BMW 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 Series 10,889
Audi A3 + A4 + A5 + A6 7,578
Mercedes C/CLA/CLS/E-Class 11,131
Lexus ES + GS + IS + RC 7,713
Infiniti Q50 + Q60 + Q70 3,284
Volvo 60 + 90 1,715
Acura RLX + TLX 2,228

[93henfan]

I don’t follow this as meticulously as you or others on this thread, and I’m a full on fanboy of Tesla

But hasn’t the Model 3 been something of a train wreck?

The "train wreck" part is mostly from US Press releases paid for by Ford and GM
In other words Car reviewers that make 85% of their income writing fluff articles for Gm and Ford



And when you compare Tesla to other vehicles you compare by market and by category

Tesla only makes High Efficiency Luxury Cars
So it is only reasonable to compare US sales in that category

and in that category they dominate

Model(s) September 2018 USA Sales
Tesla Model 3 24,040
BMW 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 Series 10,889
Audi A3 + A4 + A5 + A6 7,578
Mercedes C/CLA/CLS/E-Class 11,131
Lexus ES + GS + IS + RC 7,713
Infiniti Q50 + Q60 + Q70 3,284
Volvo 60 + 90 1,715
Acura RLX + TLX 2,228

Playing devil's advocate, CleanTechnica, which you've sited several times in this thread, is run by long Tesla investors.

Jonas Blomberg says:
July 24, 2015 at 4:01 AM

Dear Sirs,
Thanks for an instructive and inspiring site.
However, after seeing article after article praising Tesla, I get an uneasy feeling. Tesla certainly deserves praise, but is it healthy with this unidimensional bias? Development is multidimensional, and requires a comprehensive approach, i.e. “all things considered”.
Is the site, or are major participants in it, payed by Tesla?

Sorry for coming with such suspicions,
Jonas Blomberg

Offgridman says:
July 24, 2015 at 7:38 AM

The editor and one of the main contributors has an admitted favortism towards Tesla and great admiration for its CEO Elon Musk. Disclosure of this along with the fact that he is long on Tesla investments is usually included in these pieces and known to regular readers.

https://cleantechnica.com/cleantechnica/

[Chizzang]

The "train wreck" part is mostly from US Press releases paid for by Ford and GM
In other words Car reviewers that make 85% of their income writing fluff articles for Gm and Ford



And when you compare Tesla to other vehicles you compare by market and by category

Tesla only makes High Efficiency Luxury Cars
So it is only reasonable to compare US sales in that category

and in that category they dominate

Model(s) September 2018 USA Sales
Tesla Model 3 24,040
BMW 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 Series 10,889
Audi A3 + A4 + A5 + A6 7,578
Mercedes C/CLA/CLS/E-Class 11,131
Lexus ES + GS + IS + RC 7,713
Infiniti Q50 + Q60 + Q70 3,284
Volvo 60 + 90 1,715
Acura RLX + TLX 2,228

Playing devil's advocate, CleanTechnica, which you've sited several times in this thread, is run by long Tesla investors.

Jonas Blomberg says:
July 24, 2015 at 4:01 AM

Dear Sirs,
Thanks for an instructive and inspiring site.
However, after seeing article after article praising Tesla, I get an uneasy feeling. Tesla certainly deserves praise, but is it healthy with this unidimensional bias? Development is multidimensional, and requires a comprehensive approach, i.e. “all things considered”.
Is the site, or are major participants in it, payed by Tesla?

Sorry for coming with such suspicions,
Jonas Blomberg

Offgridman says:
July 24, 2015 at 7:38 AM

The editor and one of the main contributors has an admitted favortism towards Tesla and great admiration for its CEO Elon Musk. Disclosure of this along with the fact that he is long on Tesla investments is usually included in these pieces and known to regular readers.

https://cleantechnica.com/cleantechnica/

Exactly...
and every other automotive market evaluation is written by somebody in the pocket of GM or Ford
There's a lot to lose in the "Car Wars"

The old guard has had it way too easy for way too long
and the days of controlling the message and owning their own press needs to end



for every one guy writing positive information about Tesla
There are 10 paid guys writing misinformation about Tesla

[93henfan]

Playing devil's advocate, CleanTechnica, which you've sited several times in this thread, is run by long Tesla investors.


https://cleantechnica.com/cleantechnica/

Exactly...
and every other automotive market evaluation is written by somebody in the pocket of GM or Ford
There's a lot to lose in the "Car Wars"

The old guard has had it way too easy for way too long
and the days of controlling the message and owning their own press needs to end



for every one guy writing positive information about Tesla
There are 10 paid guys writing misinformation about Tesla

Meanwhile, a Bosch/VW engineering team is designing the next genius emissions cheat to put all of these Americans to shame.