National Emergency Declared!

[Ibanez]

Indeed. One of the few times 89 and I will agree. What stupid statements.

One illegal making it into the country is a crisis?

Well, since mark won’t answer I’ll ask you...what’s your number? What number is “ok” and at what point does a crisis exist?

Drama queen.
Another trend that you're blind to - I don't post often in the evenings as compared to during the day. I didn't answer your post after 5pm b/c I was doing more important things - like spending time with my kid. I'll put an alert on your posts so that I can give you the instant gratification you require. My apologies, Tom.

[Ibanez]

I don't have a specific number. But suggesting that one is a crisis is dumb. That is like MaineJeff saying that one gun death makes a crisis. Would you agree with him? Probably not.

And suggesting that 40,000 ISN’T a crisis is dumb as well, simply because it’s lower than years past. You both have confirmed that 40,000 a month does not a crisis make, in your opinion, so your number must be some number higher than that. By the way, that’s more than the population of Helena, MT coming across the border illegally every single month—in this “non crisis”.

My number is significantly lower. somewhere between 1 and 40,000. Maybe the size of, oh, Clearwater. Or Clinton.

If those numbers come from the DHS, Trump says they shouldn't be trusted.

I didn't say 40k streaming across the border was acceptable - you're assuming that based off nothing. Just a knee-jerk reaction. I'm not sold on the crisis b/c the GOP has done a piss poor job of proving to me that there is a crisis. How was it not a crisis in the 1980s, 90s, 00s, 10s but suddenly, now that Trump is around the GOP thinks there's a crisis. For me, my life and the lives of people I know haven't been affected. In fact, the only person that I know that lives in a border state and complains about it is you. My family and friends in San Diego, Houston, Tuscan, El Paso, who are 50/50 Democrat and Republican don't talk about a crisis. And i've asked them.

[mainejeff]

And suggesting that 40,000 ISN’T a crisis is dumb as well, simply because it’s lower than years past. You both have confirmed that 40,000 a month does not a crisis make, in your opinion, so your number must be some number higher than that. By the way, that’s more than the population of Helena, MT coming across the border illegally every single month—in this “non crisis”.

My number is significantly lower. somewhere between 1 and 40,000. Maybe the size of, oh, Clearwater. Or Clinton.

If those numbers come from the DHS, Trump says they shouldn't be trusted.

I didn't say 40k streaming across the border was acceptable - you're assuming that based off nothing. Just a knee-jerk reaction. I'm not sold on the crisis b/c the GOP has done a piss poor job of proving to me that there is a crisis. How was it not a crisis in the 1980s, 90s, 00s, 10s but suddenly, now that Trump is around the GOP thinks there's a crisis. For me, my life and the lives of people I know haven't been affected. In fact, the only person that I know that lives in a border state and complains about it is you. My family and friends in San Diego, Houston, Tuscan, El Paso, who are 50/50 Democrat and Republican don't talk about a crisis. And i've asked them.

Yeah but have you asked people in Montana, North Dakota, Kentucky and West Virginia? Those are the people being affected everyday by the border crisis!!!!

[CAA Flagship]

And suggesting that 40,000 ISN’T a crisis is dumb as well, simply because it’s lower than years past. You both have confirmed that 40,000 a month does not a crisis make, in your opinion, so your number must be some number higher than that. By the way, that’s more than the population of Helena, MT coming across the border illegally every single month—in this “non crisis”.

My number is significantly lower. somewhere between 1 and 40,000. Maybe the size of, oh, Clearwater. Or Clinton.

If those numbers come from the DHS, Trump says they shouldn't be trusted.

I didn't say 40k streaming across the border was acceptable - you're assuming that based off nothing. Just a knee-jerk reaction. I'm not sold on the crisis b/c the GOP has done a piss poor job of proving to me that there is a crisis. How was it not a crisis in the 1980s, 90s, 00s, 10s but suddenly, now that Trump is around the GOP thinks there's a crisis. For me, my life and the lives of people I know haven't been affected. In fact, the only person that I know that lives in a border state and complains about it is you. My family and friends in San Diego, Houston, Tuscan, El Paso, who are 50/50 Democrat and Republican don't talk about a crisis. And i've asked them.

Here's a start:
https://cis.org/Report/MS13-Resurgence- ... ur-Streets

[mainejeff]

Here's a start:
https://cis.org/Report/MS13-Resurgence- ... ur-Streets

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_fo ... on_Studies

Uh-huh.....founded by this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tanton

John Tanton "has openly embraced eugenics, the science of improving the genetic quality of the human population by encouraging selective breeding and at times, advocating for the sterilization of genetically undesirable groups."[12] Tanton wrote a paper in 1975 arguing for "passive eugenics" whereby child-bearing would be restricted to those between the ages of 20 and 35.[13] He also founded the pro-eugenics organization, the Society for Genetic Education (SAGE).[13]

So this about racism....."improving genes" (hello Nazis!) in the population.

This organization is in bed with Trump......no surprise there......and no surprise that you used their report.

[Ibanez]

If those numbers come from the DHS, Trump says they shouldn't be trusted.

I didn't say 40k streaming across the border was acceptable - you're assuming that based off nothing. Just a knee-jerk reaction. I'm not sold on the crisis b/c the GOP has done a piss poor job of proving to me that there is a crisis. How was it not a crisis in the 1980s, 90s, 00s, 10s but suddenly, now that Trump is around the GOP thinks there's a crisis. For me, my life and the lives of people I know haven't been affected. In fact, the only person that I know that lives in a border state and complains about it is you. My family and friends in San Diego, Houston, Tuscan, El Paso, who are 50/50 Democrat and Republican don't talk about a crisis. And i've asked them.

Here's a start:
https://cis.org/Report/MS13-Resurgence- ... ur-Streets

The Obama administration revised these policies, however, and ICE field offices were directed to cease efforts to disrupt gangs by arresting members for immigration violations or minor crimes and instead focus on major conspiracy cases. ICE officers were no longer permitted to arrest and remove foreign gang members until they had been convicted of major crimes. Gang arrests by ICE plummeted from about 4,600 in 2012 to about 1,580 in 2014.

This de-prioritization of anti-gang enforcement by ICE corresponded to an influx of unaccompanied youths and families arriving illegally from Central America, which began in 2012.

So maybe we enforce the laws we have on our books? A brief scan of that makes it sound that whatever Bush initiated was working until Obama screwed it up (though, I'm not sure I follow the logic of NOT apprehending these thugs.)

MS-13 gets some mention here b/c apparently Charlotte is a hotbed of activity.

But, I feel like so many of our countries issues that throwing money at the problem doesn't solve it. Enforcing laws that are already on the books would. And that's where I agree with Republicans. We have laws...use them! and If that's not enough, then let's fill in the gaps with money, a change in policy and legislation.

[Ibanez]

Here's a start:
https://cis.org/Report/MS13-Resurgence- ... ur-Streets

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_fo ... on_Studies

Uh-huh.....founded by this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tanton

John Tanton "has openly embraced eugenics, the science of improving the genetic quality of the human population by encouraging selective breeding and at times, advocating for the sterilization of genetically undesirable groups."[12] Tanton wrote a paper in 1975 arguing for "passive eugenics" whereby child-bearing would be restricted to those between the ages of 20 and 35.[13] He also founded the pro-eugenics organization, the Society for Genetic Education (SAGE).[13]

So this about racism....."improving genes" (hello Nazis!) in the population.

This organization is in bed with Trump......no surprise there......and no surprise that you used their report.

You do know that the Nazis weren't the only group to get involved in eugenics? In fact, they took a lot of their ideas and science from the eugenics program in California. That was one way that justified it. Let's be clear on the history. They learned it from the good ole USA.

California's movement was so effective that in the 1930s, members of the Nazi party asked California eugenicists for advice on how to run their own sterilization program.

"Germany used California's program as its chief example that this was a working, successful policy," Cogdell said. "They modeled their law on California's law."

https://www.cnn.com/2012/03/15/health/c ... index.html

[mainejeff]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_fo ... on_Studies

Uh-huh.....founded by this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tanton

John Tanton "has openly embraced eugenics, the science of improving the genetic quality of the human population by encouraging selective breeding and at times, advocating for the sterilization of genetically undesirable groups."[12] Tanton wrote a paper in 1975 arguing for "passive eugenics" whereby child-bearing would be restricted to those between the ages of 20 and 35.[13] He also founded the pro-eugenics organization, the Society for Genetic Education (SAGE).[13]

So this about racism....."improving genes" (hello Nazis!) in the population.

This organization is in bed with Trump......no surprise there......and no surprise that you used their report.

You do know that the Nazis weren't the only group to get involved in eugenics? In fact, they took a lot of their ideas and science from the eugenics program in California. That was one way that justified it. Let's be clear on the history. They learned it from the good ole USA.

California's movement was so effective that in the 1930s, members of the Nazi party asked California eugenicists for advice on how to run their own sterilization program.

"Germany used California's program as its chief example that this was a working, successful policy," Cogdell said. "They modeled their law on California's law."

https://www.cnn.com/2012/03/15/health/c ... index.html

And let's be clear about John Tanton and the Center for Immigration Studies as well.

[Ibanez]

You do know that the Nazis weren't the only group to get involved in eugenics? In fact, they took a lot of their ideas and science from the eugenics program in California. That was one way that justified it. Let's be clear on the history. They learned it from the good ole USA.



https://www.cnn.com/2012/03/15/health/c ... index.html

And let's be clear about John Tanton and the Center for Immigration Studies as well.

No doubt. Tanton doesn't have a credible history.

[AZGrizFan]

And suggesting that 40,000 ISN’T a crisis is dumb as well, simply because it’s lower than years past. You both have confirmed that 40,000 a month does not a crisis make, in your opinion, so your number must be some number higher than that. By the way, that’s more than the population of Helena, MT coming across the border illegally every single month—in this “non crisis”.

My number is significantly lower. somewhere between 1 and 40,000. Maybe the size of, oh, Clearwater. Or Clinton.

If those numbers come from the DHS, Trump says they shouldn't be trusted.

I didn't say 40k streaming across the border was acceptable - you're assuming that based off nothing. Just a knee-jerk reaction. I'm not sold on the crisis b/c the GOP has done a piss poor job of proving to me that there is a crisis. How was it not a crisis in the 1980s, 90s, 00s, 10s but suddenly, now that Trump is around the GOP thinks there's a crisis. For me, my life and the lives of people I know haven't been affected. In fact, the only person that I know that lives in a border state and complains about it is you. My family and friends in San Diego, Houston, Tuscan, El Paso, who are 50/50 Democrat and Republican don't talk about a crisis. And i've asked them.

San Diego & El Paso both have walls. Yuma has a wall. Nogales has a wall. In fact, almost the ENTIRE AZ BORDER has a barrier of some sort. If you'd been to those places you'd know that. Houston has the ocean. Whoops...better come up with some other examples that better fit your narrative.

I know several landowners whose ranches directly abut the Rio Grande river in Texas (most of which can be easily waded across, about knee deep) between McAllen & Laredo. They require border patrol presence on their property 24/7/365. They also have illegals crossing into their property. Literally EVERY. SINGLE. NIGHT. Some are caught, many aren't. Some are coyotes, most are smuggling drugs. They have to go everywhere on their OWN property with loaded weapons (because almost every illegal they encounter is packing). They've found abandoned backpacks with guns, pot, coke, etc. There is trash, human waste, etc. everywhere all the time. Tell them it's not a crisis.

And it WAS a crisis in the 80's, 90's, 00's and 10's. That's why all the donks voted for a fucking wall when Obama was president, dipshit. The only reason they DON'T want a wall now is because Trump DOES and they don't want to see him get another election promise checked off.

Come on, Mark. You're smarter than this.

[AZGrizFan]

Well, since mark won’t answer I’ll ask you...what’s your number? What number is “ok” and at what point does a crisis exist?

Drama queen.
Another trend that you're blind to - I don't post often in the evenings as compared to during the day. I didn't answer your post after 5pm b/c I was doing more important things - like spending time with my kid. I'll put an alert on your posts so that I can give you the instant gratification you require. My apologies, Tom.

I thought you'd already done that. Liar.

[Ibanez]

Drama queen.
Another trend that you're blind to - I don't post often in the evenings as compared to during the day. I didn't answer your post after 5pm b/c I was doing more important things - like spending time with my kid. I'll put an alert on your posts so that I can give you the instant gratification you require. My apologies, Tom.

I thought you'd already done that. Liar.

touche.

[Ibanez]

If those numbers come from the DHS, Trump says they shouldn't be trusted.

I didn't say 40k streaming across the border was acceptable - you're assuming that based off nothing. Just a knee-jerk reaction. I'm not sold on the crisis b/c the GOP has done a piss poor job of proving to me that there is a crisis. How was it not a crisis in the 1980s, 90s, 00s, 10s but suddenly, now that Trump is around the GOP thinks there's a crisis. For me, my life and the lives of people I know haven't been affected. In fact, the only person that I know that lives in a border state and complains about it is you. My family and friends in San Diego, Houston, Tuscan, El Paso, who are 50/50 Democrat and Republican don't talk about a crisis. And i've asked them.

San Diego & El Paso both have walls. Yuma has a wall. Nogales has a wall. In fact, almost the ENTIRE AZ BORDER has a barrier of some sort. If you'd been to those places you'd know that. Houston has the ocean. Whoops...better come up with some other examples that better fit your narrative.

I know several landowners whose ranches directly abut the Rio Grande river in Texas (most of which can be easily waded across, about knee deep) between McAllen & Laredo. They require border patrol presence on their property 24/7/365. They also have illegals crossing into their property. Literally EVERY. SINGLE. NIGHT. Some are caught, many aren't. Some are coyotes, most are smuggling drugs. They have to go everywhere on their OWN property with loaded weapons (because almost every illegal they encounter is packing). They've found abandoned backpacks with guns, pot, coke, etc. There is trash, human waste, etc. everywhere all the time. Tell them it's not a crisis.

And it WAS a crisis in the 80's, 90's, 00's and 10's. That's why all the donks voted for a fucking wall when Obama was president, dipshit. The only reason they DON'T want a wall now is because Trump DOES and they don't want to see him get another election promise checked off.

Come on, Mark. You're smarter than this.

The closest I've ever been to the border might be Yuma, AZ. Which is closer, Camp Pendleton or Yuma Proving Grounds?

My "narrative" which you aren't getting is that it has it been logically proven to me by our government that there's a "crisis". Data, provided by our government, indicated a downward trend. Those 2 things aren't jiving with me.

If you ask me if we need to greatly reduce illegal crossings, I would say yes and we should enforce laws that already exist to accomplish that. We should provide funds to projects that would reduce the problem. That's a no-brainier. More judges, more support at POEs, etc.. All the stuff that Trump was offered in December.

You're ignoring the fact that I agree we need to work on the border. My "issue" is calling it a crisis and failing to effectively prove it and then, when Congress doesn't give you what you want, you circumvent their powers. I know - Congress has abdicated much of it's power to the POTUS. But that doesn't make it right.

I like to think I give politicians the benefit of doubt until something is proven otherwise. Even Trump.

A crisis? I'm hung up on the semantics, I'll admit. I'm a stickler for calling things what they are. It's certainly a priority.

[CAA Flagship]

The closet I've ever been to.....

I KNEW IT.

[CAA Flagship]

Here is a good site for wall info:

https://www.usatoday.com/border-wall/us ... order-map/

[Ibanez]

The closet I've ever been to.....

I KNEW IT.

Ahh damnit.

[Ibanez]

Here is a good site for wall info:

https://www.usatoday.com/border-wall/us ... order-map/

FAKE NEWS!



That's how it works right?

[Ibanez]

I'll say this - the walls from then 1990s which are corrugated metal need to be replaced. And I think that's going on now.

[89Hen]

And suggesting that 40,000 ISN’T a crisis is dumb as well

So you're basically saying you're both dumb. Check.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

If those numbers come from the DHS, Trump says they shouldn't be trusted.

I didn't say 40k streaming across the border was acceptable - you're assuming that based off nothing. Just a knee-jerk reaction. I'm not sold on the crisis b/c the GOP has done a piss poor job of proving to me that there is a crisis. How was it not a crisis in the 1980s, 90s, 00s, 10s but suddenly, now that Trump is around the GOP thinks there's a crisis. For me, my life and the lives of people I know haven't been affected. In fact, the only person that I know that lives in a border state and complains about it is you. My family and friends in San Diego, Houston, Tuscan, El Paso, who are 50/50 Democrat and Republican don't talk about a crisis. And i've asked them.

San Diego & El Paso both have walls. Yuma has a wall. Nogales has a wall. In fact, almost the ENTIRE AZ BORDER has a barrier of some sort. If you'd been to those places you'd know that. Houston has the ocean. Whoops...better come up with some other examples that better fit your narrative.

I know several landowners whose ranches directly abut the Rio Grande river in Texas (most of which can be easily waded across, about knee deep) between McAllen & Laredo. They require border patrol presence on their property 24/7/365. They also have illegals crossing into their property. Literally EVERY. SINGLE. NIGHT. Some are caught, many aren't. Some are coyotes, most are smuggling drugs. They have to go everywhere on their OWN property with loaded weapons (because almost every illegal they encounter is packing). They've found abandoned backpacks with guns, pot, coke, etc. There is trash, human waste, etc. everywhere all the time. Tell them it's not a crisis.

And it WAS a crisis in the 80's, 90's, 00's and 10's. That's why all the donks voted for a fucking wall when Obama was president, dipshit. The only reason they DON'T want a wall now is because Trump DOES and they don't want to see him get another election promise checked off.

Come on, Mark. You're smarter than this.

Don't be so sure

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[AZGrizFan]

And suggesting that 40,000 ISN’T a crisis is dumb as well

So you're basically saying you're both dumb. Check.

Obviously my "1" comment was tongue-in-cheek. I'm attempting to get these fence sitters to put a definition on what would, in their eyes, define a "crisis", because obviously 40,000 a month ain't it in their eyes...

[AZGrizFan]

The closest I've ever been to the border might be Yuma, AZ. Which is closer, Camp Pendleton or Yuma Proving Grounds?

My "narrative" which you aren't getting is that it has it been logically proven to me by our government that there's a "crisis". Data, provided by our government, indicated a downward trend. Those 2 things aren't jiving with me.

If you ask me if we need to greatly reduce illegal crossings, I would say yes and we should enforce laws that already exist to accomplish that. We should provide funds to projects that would reduce the problem. That's a no-brainier. More judges, more support at POEs, etc.. All the stuff that Trump was offered in December.

You're ignoring the fact that I agree we need to work on the border. My "issue" is calling it a crisis and failing to effectively prove it and then, when Congress doesn't give you what you want, you circumvent their powers. I know - Congress has abdicated much of it's power to the POTUS. But that doesn't make it right.

I like to think I give politicians the benefit of doubt until something is proven otherwise. Even Trump.

A crisis? I'm hung up on the semantics, I'll admit. I'm a stickler for calling things what they are. It's certainly a priority.

Well which is it? Have they, or have they not proven it to you? You take both sides of the argument here.
And I agree. He shouldn't have to circumvent the appropriations process, and I've said as much here. They should have funds to do all those things...AND build a wall where necessary and effective. Also, look on a fucking map. Pendleton is 55 miles from the border. Yuma proving ground starts just north of Yuma, about 10 miles from the border.

Come on, Mark. You're smarter than that.

[Ibanez]

The closest I've ever been to the border might be Yuma, AZ. Which is closer, Camp Pendleton or Yuma Proving Grounds?

My "narrative" which you aren't getting is that it has it been logically proven to me by our government that there's a "crisis". Data, provided by our government, indicated a downward trend. Those 2 things aren't jiving with me.

If you ask me if we need to greatly reduce illegal crossings, I would say yes and we should enforce laws that already exist to accomplish that. We should provide funds to projects that would reduce the problem. That's a no-brainier. More judges, more support at POEs, etc.. All the stuff that Trump was offered in December.

You're ignoring the fact that I agree we need to work on the border. My "issue" is calling it a crisis and failing to effectively prove it and then, when Congress doesn't give you what you want, you circumvent their powers. I know - Congress has abdicated much of it's power to the POTUS. But that doesn't make it right.

I like to think I give politicians the benefit of doubt until something is proven otherwise. Even Trump.

A crisis? I'm hung up on the semantics, I'll admit. I'm a stickler for calling things what they are. It's certainly a priority.

Well which is it? Have they, or have they not proven it to you? You take both sides of the argument here.
And I agree. He shouldn't have to circumvent the appropriations process, and I've said as much here. They should have funds to do all those things...AND build a wall where necessary and effective. Also, look on a fucking map. Pendleton is 55 miles from the border. Yuma proving ground starts just north of Yuma, about 10 miles from the border.

Come on, Mark. You're smarter than that.

Oops. There should've be a "not" after has. It hasn't been proven to me.


ANd I don't need to look at a fucking map, Thomas. I don't have to and you can't make me.


On a personal note, I joined a CU yesterday and thought of you. I'm not happy about having to wait until 3/4 to have my $20k available. Somehow 3/4/19 is 9 business days from yesterday.

[89Hen]

So you're basically saying you're both dumb. Check.

Obviously my "1" comment was tongue-in-cheek. I'm attempting to get these fence sitters to put a definition on what would, in their eyes, define a "crisis", because obviously 40,000 a month ain't it in their eyes...

I think it's like that famous one from years ago with pornography where "I know it when I see it" thing.

I do think the current situation is a crisis because we honestly have so little to worry about. Poverty... that will always been concern. IMO the number one function of the federal government is national security. Once we have that solved, we can work on other things.

[AZGrizFan]

Well which is it? Have they, or have they not proven it to you? You take both sides of the argument here.
And I agree. He shouldn't have to circumvent the appropriations process, and I've said as much here. They should have funds to do all those things...AND build a wall where necessary and effective. Also, look on a fucking map. Pendleton is 55 miles from the border. Yuma proving ground starts just north of Yuma, about 10 miles from the border.

Come on, Mark. You're smarter than that.

Oops. There should've be a "not" after has. It hasn't been proven to me.


ANd I don't need to look at a fucking map, Thomas. I don't have to and you can't make me.


On a personal note, I joined a CU yesterday and thought of you. I'm not happy about having to wait until 3/4 to have my $20k available. Somehow 3/4/19 is 9 business days from yesterday.

I can make you, and I will.

And have them call me. I’ll vouch for you...